is it safe buying used boat

[marky116hk]

Hi all
im still looking at use ribs and this video has really made me think about buying a rib around the 10 -15 grand mark. 2005 boat original tubes am i looking at retube or at least in the next 5 years? The whole point about buying rib in my mind is saftey .

Has any body got an opinion on what they say about tubes and safety.
Im sure you have seen it before but cant see it any where on here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6U0spUSZY4

thanks mark

[beamishken]

It all depends on condition & how the boat has been used & stored. You see some 40 year old tubes that still look good but you can also find 10 year old boats that need retubed. I recently sold a small hypalon rib I'd owned over 20 years from new & the tubes were immaculate & would easily do another 10 or 20 years. The boat had always been garaged when not in use so hadn't had much UV exposure to the tubes.
Older hypalon lasts better than pvc & polyurethane imho although polyurethane is more abrasion resistant it seems to suffer from uv damage much worse. Look at lots of boats before you buy even if not for sale so you get an idea whats good & whats bad in tube terms, you can usually spot tubes coming to the end of their lives if you know what your looking at.
Look at condition not age when you buy.

[marky116hk]

That was what i thought but the video talks about how despite being stored inside etc the tubes degrade and you just cant tell whats going on inside. so do you just say 15 years and their done and you replace even if they are looking good. I found it interesting when he talked about it ripping due to age. I surpose its an individiual choice and you take your chances, family on board im tempted to be more conservative on this one.

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by marky116hk

That was what i thought but the video talks about how despite being stored inside etc the tubes degrade and you just cant tell whats going on inside. so do you just say 15 years and their done and you replace even if they are looking good. I found it interesting when he talked about it ripping due to age. I surpose its an individiual choice and you take your chances, family on board im tempted to be more conservative on this one.

That boat in the video is a polyurethane tubed boat & is typical of how old polyurethane degrades. Hypalon doesnt degrade like polyurethane nor does the glue degrade on hypalon the same as polyurethane hence why an older hypalon boat is a better bet.

[paulbrown22]

Originally Posted by beamishken

That boat in the video is a polyurethane tubed boat & is typical of how old polyurethane degrades. Hypalon doesnt degrade like polyurethane nor does the glue degrade on hypalon the same as polyurethane hence why an older hypalon boat is a better bet.

What do you reckon on the newer welded PU tubes? I was speaking to XS the other week about a new safety RIB for our sailing club, and they are very pro PU (whilst also offering Hypalon if you really want it) and thought for the average UK club usage it lasted and aged better than Hypalon given our sunshine or lack thereof... We would keep on a Tetradock under a cover.

[Easedalenovice]

Originally Posted by paulbrown22

What do you reckon on the newer welded PU tubes? I was speaking to XS the other week about a new safety RIB for our sailing club, and they are very pro PU (whilst also offering Hypalon if you really want it) and thought for the average UK club usage it lasted and aged better than Hypalon given our sunshine or lack thereof... We would keep on a Tetradock under a cover.

Almost all current rib makers will tell you that modern tube material is superior to Hypalon. This is asked so many time on here and the old ribbers will just attack those that say this. Ask the makers I say who tend to tell you that the modern pvc is the way to go

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by paulbrown22

What do you reckon on the newer welded PU tubes? I was speaking to XS the other week about a new safety RIB for our sailing club, and they are very pro PU (whilst also offering Hypalon if you really want it) and thought for the average UK club usage it lasted and aged better than Hypalon given our sunshine or lack thereof... We would keep on a Tetradock under a cover.

I think the gap is definitely closing between hypalon & polyurethane (which is different to pvc) the lack of glued joints is a bonus & the newer polyurethane is supposed to be more uv stable & is definitely more abrasion resistant than hypalon. Xs have always been pro polyurethane so they have a strong bias towards the material, they previously manufactured the tornadoes but as you see in the video old tornadoes dont fare well nor do many polyurethane older boats. As the ops question was about older boats 10-15yo hes almost certainly better off with a hypalon boat.
As for your sailing club safety boat presumably they get upgraded fairly regularly so polyurethane might be a good option as they definitely take abuse from ropes & abrasion better. The newer generation of more uv stable pu/ welded tubes has only been about 10 -12 years iirc so not long enough to say how it fares against hypalon long term. I find hypalon easier to work with when repairs are required too.
My personal preference is still hypalon but as I said for new boats the gap has definitely closed. For older boats the age the op is thinking of hypalon is definitely the safer bet.

[Tlawrence]

Key thing to check on safety is that the baffles are in tact. To do so you need to let down a chamber at a time and see if the other chambers go down. This is the most important thing from a safety perspective as if they are perished, a puncture would leave you with no tubes. Just had my Ribeye re-tubes at Demon Ribs because all baffles were knackered. Demon rightly refused to repair it on safety grounds.

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by Tlawrence

Key thing to check on safety is that the baffles are in tact. To do so you need to let down a chamber at a time and see if the other chambers go down. This is the most important thing from a safety perspective as if they are perished, a puncture would leave you with no tubes. Just had my Ribeye re-tubes at Demon Ribs because all baffles were knackered. Demon rightly refused to repair it on safety grounds.

Were your ribeye tubes polyurethane or hypalon? & what did you retube in?

[Tlawrence]

Originally Posted by beamishken

Were your ribeye tubes polyurethane or hypalon? & what did you retube in?

just started a thread on mine. I think it was Polyurethane before. I've got Orca Hypalon now.

[beamishken]

Interesting that most folk seem to retube with hypalon after pu

[Easedalenovice]

Originally Posted by beamishken

Interesting that most folk seem to retube with hypalon after pu

Interesting also that I would say all sibs are not Hypalon and they seem to last ages and people seem to be very happy with them

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by Easedalenovice

Interesting also that I would say all sibs are not Hypalon and they seem to last ages and people seem to be very happy with them

Sibs are cheap enough to be virtually disposable & many are done by 10 years old & folk bin them, regularly see them in skips at the marina. See plenty of 40 year old avon redcrests still doing service 40 ish years old doubt your honwave will see 40yo

[Fenlander]

There is nothing like the real quality of a 40yr old Zodiac or Avon SIB in Hypalon with a chunky wood transom and superbly crafted varnished oars. They don't make them now mainly as folks don't want to pay for that level of quality not because all modern materials are better.

[paulbrown22]

Originally Posted by Easedalenovice

Almost all current rib makers will tell you that modern tube material is superior to Hypalon. This is asked so many time on here and the old ribbers will just attack those that say this. Ask the makers I say who tend to tell you that the modern pvc is the way to go

I must admit I still wouldn't touch PVC for this kind of usage especially as we have a PVC RIB at the club completely falling apart at the seams, but interested whether modern welded PU is worth considering, or just stick with good old Hypalon!

[paulbrown22]

Originally Posted by beamishken

I think the gap is definitely closing between hypalon & polyurethane (which is different to pvc) the lack of glued joints is a bonus & the newer polyurethane is supposed to be more uv stable & is definitely more abrasion resistant than hypalon. Xs have always been pro polyurethane so they have a strong bias towards the material, they previously manufactured the tornadoes but as you see in the video old tornadoes dont fare well nor do many polyurethane older boats. As the ops question was about older boats 10-15yo hes almost certainly better off with a hypalon boat.
As for your sailing club safety boat presumably they get upgraded fairly regularly so polyurethane might be a good option as they definitely take abuse from ropes & abrasion better. The newer generation of more uv stable pu/ welded tubes has only been about 10 -12 years iirc so not long enough to say how it fares against hypalon long term. I find hypalon easier to work with when repairs are required too.
My personal preference is still hypalon but as I said for new boats the gap has definitely closed. For older boats the age the op is thinking of hypalon is definitely the safer bet.

Thanks Ken - it's only a fairly small club (which I've recently joined), so if they do the same as they appear to have done historically I assume it will be kept as long as possible and run into the ground. Once we get the initial fleet sorted though I'm trying to move them towards more routinely swapping boats out, selling and upgrading, so we can maintain a much higher level of reliability without the amount of maintenance currently required ahead of every race!

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by paulbrown22

Thanks Ken - it's only a fairly small club (which I've recently joined), so if they do the same as they appear to have done historically I assume it will be kept as long as possible and run into the ground. Once we get the initial fleet sorted though I'm trying to move them towards more routinely swapping boats out, selling and upgrading, so we can maintain a much higher level of reliability without the amount of maintenance currently required ahead of every race!

Haha you make suggestions at your peril where clubs are concerned, whatever you choose someone at some time will say you got it wrong[emoji6]. Keeping the fleet reasonably young, engines & boats is a good option but you'll probably have members who've had the same yacht for decades who definitely wont be in the same camp.
If you look at the humber website they often have stock boats at well below retail depending on time of year, you may find a good deal if your not too fussed about colour etc. They maybe don't have the finesse of some other brands but reasonably solid work horses.

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by paulbrown22

I must admit I still wouldn't touch PVC for this kind of usage especially as we have a PVC RIB at the club completely falling apart at the seams, but interested whether modern welded PU is worth considering, or just stick with good old Hypalon!

Hes missing the point of manufacturers saying modern materials are better than hypalon. The reason being hypalon which is a brand name hasnt been made for several years when we refer to hypalon in reference to new boats we should use csm as the term for what we refer to as hypalon. A bit like calling a Dyson a hoover. So when manufacturers claim modern materials are better than hypalon there not just refering to pvc or polyurethane they are also saying modern csm is better than hypalon.
Obviously each manufacturer will claim their products are better than the competitors, its simply marketing tactics, your never going to get a bmw agent saying a merc has a better engine than the bmw hes selling. Boat salesmen are just the same, do your homework & don't believe everything the dealers tell you.

[fastasfox]

I have looked into this topic more than most on here..I really dug deep for info and I can tell you that the common failure point is the glue....NOT the material. I have owned several sibs made from Hypalon, and they always let go at the glued seems.
Last year I renewed my tubes on my Tornado at XS ribs/ ri-retube uk and I asked the owner about the battle between PU and Hypalon and he gave me a very honest reply.
When Tornado used to make the tubes out of PU they used to glue all of the seems together, in the same way Hypalon tubes are made. The problem they found out was that with PU, the glue was affected much more by UV and as such seems failed and in later models they rectified the problem by using tape in the seems as to protect them against uv damage.
Xs still make tubes out of PU but now all the seems and the baffling are heat welded and for me it was this that swung it.
So in reality there is nothing between Hypalon and PU fabrics and like others have stated it all boils down to how the RIB has been cared for....garaged is best, but a cover will go a long way to help prolong the life of the tubes.

Always have in the back of your mind that as a rough guide ,new tubes cost around £1000 per meter to replace.

With regards to the saftey aspect of older ribs, you will have to decide what level of risk you want to take and what you want to use the boat for. If you plan on longer trip far offshore then it's vital to know the condition of the tubed. If you just plan on shorter trips close to shore then you may decide the risk level is reduced as the chance of all chambers failing at once are next to impossible.
This is my opinion on the matter, but I'm sure others may disagree.

[Easedalenovice]

Originally Posted by beamishken

Sibs are cheap enough to be virtually disposable & many are done by 10 years old & folk bin them, regularly see them in skips at the marina. See plenty of 40 year old avon redcrests still doing service 40 ish years old doubt your honwave will see 40yo

Not sure I need it to do 40 years