Forward Visibilty

[Matt]

The ribs with a bunch of jockey seating in front of the console; what’s the visibility like on these?

It occurs to me they’re a good layout for keeping an eye on your passengers/crew, but suboptimal when it comes into seeing clear ahead, especially if you have big people in the fwd seats and a short arse on the helm?

One of the things I always like about a “normal” rib in the 5m range with a jockey seat is the fabulous all round visibility for rescue or other duty purposes. But when you're gunning it, it's only the crew's screams or jabs in the ribs that tell you they're still there (that's the right way, isn't it?). But I also ran a VT PP-Jet rigged rib years ago with an aft helm and it had great visibility - but while watching a video of a commercial/military rib the other day it got me wondering, it looked like the fwd view was pretty restricted?

I know on my boat (8.3m hard boat), as I bring it up onto the plane and sub 20 knots, tabs are a must otherwise I have restricted visibility from the bow being high, so tabs are my SOP, plus these days I ensure I have a wider arc of clear water so if a small rib or whatever were to change course, there’s no possibility of them being able to be where I am going. I also accelerate to above 20 knots fairy briskly, again to get the bow down and get good visibility back. Fortunately the boat runs nice and flat once really going, so visibility then remains good through the operating range.

[Matt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suHOLFhbwsM

You can see they're running the crew 2 up on the launch boat and both sticking their heads out to the side (14s) with the mast in the way, but at about the 36s mark you get a side on view of the other boats and it looks like in the bow up attitude with other crew on board, the crew don't have particularly good visibility?

Also apparent on the screenshot - even on the launch boat with no extra crew on, fwd visibility looks "limited"?

[John Kennett]

The big trip boats tend to have raised helm positions so the crew can easily see over the passengers.

For example this one from the Thames RIB Experience https://thamesribexperience.com

[Matt]

Yeah, the IOW needles RIB is the same:
https://www.needlespleasurecruises.co.uk/the-boats/
And even "tiers" the passenger seating.

Which, as a "free fact", was designed by Adam Younger who many here will know well. Not just evident because it says so on the page, but because it has his trademark "kick" in the chine line if you see it up close.

[jwalker]

The big Humbers working out of Loch Ness are similar in that they have elevated helm positions. But they travel quite flat at speed and the length tends to hold the bow down when lifting onto the plane.

However, if you're talking about operations out at sea, I doubt there's much risk of a wee boat nupping under your bows. And in big seas a rib stays safe by being able to lift its bow under power so it's a desirable characteristic.

[Pikey Dave]

Are there any legal requirements/COP recommendations for boats operating commercially, WRG helm visibility?

[Matt]

Actually, you'd be surprised!

The reason I've adopted this SOP is because on one of my trips out @ Southampton, there were a bunch of ribs near me. As we exited the itchen and throttled up, I'm in the "a bit loud & looks like it should be fast" boat.

What this means is that as I throttled up, the ribs (in this case, 4-5M size range with 50-90 hp motors. My boat is only 8.3M) had hopped up onto the plane and were doing a bit of "hey look at us, we overtook him" zig zagging pretty close in front of me, and I was unsighted from them momentarily where they could have crossed my path and I wouldn't have seen them as I climbed onto the plane (if they had engine failure or MOB, say). On that particular day, naturally, I closed the throttle until I had visibility of everyone again and they were all well clear. (I should also add that, if necessary, I could have stood up too, but since I'm nice and comfortable in the bucket seats, it suited me to be patient)

In reality, I could of course gun it so I remain ahead, but I much prefer to get it up onto the plane in the 20 knots or so realm, tabs up, bow down, temperatures, pressures (inc RWP) and everything all stable and as expected before opening the taps. I know the bloke that built it and things don't always quite go to plan.

Originally Posted by jwalker

I doubt there's much risk of a wee boat nupping under your bows.

[Matt]

I have no idea. I can say if I was designing a boat for a purpose, this would be one of my criteria, much as you can see the AYD vessel is (it was a custom design for this role, I believe). But, say, if I was designing a rib for carrying troops toward a hostile vessel (as per vid, potentially), you don't want the crew too high or they become the obvious & easy target.

But I also do think in any role like this, you'd want a pair of crew on board. One to be doing the doing looking ahead and one to keep a good lookout of everywhere else. It's surprisingly easy to get object fixation and brain overload (as my mate who accidentally landed his paraglider on a pair of gentlemen on a beach who were in the middle of "ugandan negotiations", claims, anyway. )

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Are there any legal requirements/COP recommendations for boats operating commercially, WRG helm visibility?

[GuyC]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Are there any legal requirements/COP recommendations for boats operating commercially, WRG helm visibility?

Taken from the Workboat Code which is applicable to RIB's.

[jwalker]

'Posted by jwalker View Post
'I doubt there's much risk of a wee boat nupping under your bows.'

Well you took that nicely out of context!....

Originally...
However, if you're talking about operations out at sea, I doubt there's much risk of a wee boat nupping under your bows.

Well your story raises two issues...silly arseoles diving about infront of a powerering boat and the angle of your boat before lifting the stern....get some longer tabs!!

PS: nupping = nipping

[GuyC]

The Pacific 24 which is the standard RN sea boat is primarily designed for rescue boat / boarding activities at sea and seakeeping is pretty high up the list of priorities. It's the Pac 24 they are using in support of the (pointless) jet pack.

The boats that deliver troops to the beach have pretty flat sheer which helps with visibility but all the troops and the crew are sat pretty high until they get close in when they assemble up forward. If it's bad they have armoured screens that they can put up. Google Offshore Raiding Craft. Apparently they are very wet.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by jwalker

Well you took that nicely out of context!....

Apologies. Yes, but intentionally. Don’t want anyone to get the impression I think my boat is bigger/better than anyone else’s, since that would be patently untrue.
A wee nipper is just as much fun, if not often more.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by GuyC

…in support of the (pointless) jet pack.

It does look like a lot of fun, but I have to agree.

[willk]

Originally Posted by Matt

..a pair of gentlemen on a beach who were in the middle of "ugandan negotiations"...

Is that the same as "watching badgers"?

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by willk

Is that the same as "watching badgers"?

I’ve never heard either of those euphemisms, I suspect I know what they mean, but I’m too afraid to Google them🥴

[GuyC]

https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...%20discussions

[Matt]

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by GuyC

https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...%20discussions

Yeah, not as bad as I thought it was going to be. Quite respectable actually.

[C2 RIBS]

Originally Posted by GuyC

Taken from the Workboat Code which is applicable to RIB's.

The workboat code is not what the other ribs are coded under, Majority come under the MCA MGN 280 guidance document. A few operate under local codes.

People have correctly identified that visibility changes with a rear helm position. A good example is the image showing two Gemini ribs, One forward helm the other aft. If you take a line from the helm eye over the bow you can see there is some difference. If the vessel is bow lifting due to waves/sea conditions that visibility changes again.
I have skippered both and always come back to the forward helm. This position means the crew feel the sea conditions more and can reduce shock mitigation issues.

Another consideration is if crew transfer are needed the rear helm may be a long way from the crew moving onto another boat unlike the forward helm.

MGN 280 code is under review to become law with new colour codes and we expect to see something on visibility, this has been ongoing years

The designer of ribs at the start Dag Pike had been an expert witness in court cases and always would say rear helm was the best position for crew to see passengers, In light of his thoughts I fitted forward helm wide angle mirror to see passengers, I would happily contest his views now. RIP Dag

[Salty Pete]

G'Day Matt

Yeah, this is something that I have thought of myself. Especially when you have the front of the console as the back of a seat in front of the helm.

The recommended seating for my RIB is on the tubes and the driver's seat is lower than the top of the tubes. You have a direct line of sight ahead but no visibility either side.

People sitting on the tubes also obstruct the navigation lights. I've fitted another set on the bow.

Regulations appear, as I have seen them, is visibility being obstructed by the structure of the boat and obstructions by passengers appears to be ignored.