Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 23 September 2021, 14:08   #1
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: suffolk
Boat name: not yet
Make: Nautica/ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: Yam 115/ Honda 100
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 899
Dyneema winch rope

Just looking for a bit of the expertise on the above subject
Been thinking about trying one of those cheapie imported winches with Dyneema rope for a while ,so mounted up for trial (couple of criteria were not to do away with hand wind, and had to be removed before leaving trailer unnatended ) so couple of pictures

But main question is after using a couple of times is the dyneema seems to have gone flat and almost looks like its been hot (but it hasnt ) ...........Is this normal please ? winch is 2 ton supplied with the dyneema and pullig (via a free running ally pulley ) 5.3 @700kg ish up 40 degree slipway
__________________

__________________
Orwell boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 September 2021, 14:41   #2
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Surrey
Boat name: Fandango
Make: Ballistic
Length: 6m +
Engine: Yamaha 150
MMSI: 232028101
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 172
RIBase
I'm trying something similar. Winch with a 1.4T capacity and 5mm Synthetic Rope (not dyneema). The rope looks very flat when it's spooled on the winch drum. I've used it 2 or 3 times now and it works great via the remote.

I've thought about changing to Dyneema and splicing in a smaller hook. Possibly a winter project!

__________________

__________________
_monkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 September 2021, 15:17   #3
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: suffolk
Boat name: not yet
Make: Nautica/ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: Yam 115/ Honda 100
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by _monkey View Post
I'm trying something similar. Winch with a 1.4T capacity and 5mm Synthetic Rope (not dyneema). The rope looks very flat when it's spooled on the winch drum. I've used it 2 or 3 times now and it works great via the remote.

I've thought about changing to Dyneema and splicing in a smaller hook. Possibly a winter project!

That looks similar to my set up but cant get my picture up at present ,i have mounted my winch flat on the main thru part of drawbar but this does mean i am running against the top of the fairlead all the time but i thought this would be ok as pretty normal at offroad events ,however i may revisit this fact ,and try and get the mouth of the fairlead pointing more up at the pulley
Thankyou
__________________
Orwell boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 September 2021, 15:21   #4
RIBnet Supporter
 
willk's Avatar
 
Country: Ireland
Make: Redbay Boats
Length: 9m +
Engine: 370hp
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 14,378
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orwell boy View Post
But main question is after using a couple of times is the dyneema seems to have gone flat and almost looks like its been hot (but it hasnt ) ...........Is this normal please ?
Yes, it's normal. It can even set with a square section and it will fall out again in use.
__________________
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?
willk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24 September 2021, 14:07   #5
Member
 
mick's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Wakefield
Boat name: Bouncer
Make: Redbay Stormforce
Length: 6m +
Engine: 2x Honda 90Hp
MMSI: 235025718
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,035
Iíve had Dyeema on a hand winch for years and it does go flat, i usually unwind it each year to take pressure off and never leave tension on the winch.
__________________
mick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24 September 2021, 15:30   #6
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: suffolk
Boat name: not yet
Make: Nautica/ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: Yam 115/ Honda 100
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 899
Thanks guys ,looks like your suggesting my worries are un founded ,just a simple little thing but am now reassured its not going to fail at anytime soon
not sure how long the dyneema has beeen about ,but certainly allows alot of strength in a small diameter and without energy storage i am guessing
winch i chose was a 4500lb ,2 ton ish but to be honest i think its min to do the job up 40 degree slipway and towed my nautica up today which is poss nearer a ton ,wouldnt buy any less rating ,however i think my battery is heathy but need to check out to be sure thanks for help
__________________
Orwell boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 September 2021, 09:44   #7
Member
 
A1an's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Fort William
Make: Humber Destroyer
Length: 5m +
Engine: Yamaha F80
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,512
RIBase
Your boat may WEIGH a ton but you are putting no where near that on the winch. Even on a steep slip I’d be surprised if a winch sees more that a couple of hundred kilos force on it.
__________________
There is a place on this planet for all of Gods creatures.........right next to my tatties and gravy.
A1an is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 September 2021, 10:50   #8
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: north ayrshire
Boat name: charlie girl
Make: reiver 3.8/regal3760
Length: 10m +
Engine: 40hp 2st 2x6lp 315
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by A1an View Post
Your boat may WEIGH a ton but you are putting no where near that on the winch. Even on a steep slip Iíd be surprised if a winch sees more that a couple of hundred kilos force on it.
That doesn't always work as other factors come into play, depending on type & condition of trailer you could be putting way more than 1t on the line once friction comes into play.

Sent from my SM-G950F using RIB Net mobile app
__________________
beamishken is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25 September 2021, 12:54   #9
Member
 
A1an's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Fort William
Make: Humber Destroyer
Length: 5m +
Engine: Yamaha F80
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,512
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by beamishken View Post
you could be putting way more than 1t on the line once friction comes into play.

Sent from my SM-G950F using RIB Net mobile app
on a 1 ton boat?
__________________
There is a place on this planet for all of Gods creatures.........right next to my tatties and gravy.
A1an is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 September 2021, 13:47   #10
Member
 
Pikey Dave's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: South Yorks
Boat name: Black Pig
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: DF140a
MMSI: 235111389
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 10,857
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by A1an View Post
on a 1 ton boat?


Theoretically quite easy tbh. Depending on the setup of the rear rollers & depth of water, you could quite easily put 2-3 times the weight of the boat onto the winch. Itís all about the angles & leverage.
__________________
Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
Rule#3: Tha' can't educate pork.
Rule#4:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y
Pikey Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 September 2021, 13:56   #11
Member
 
A1an's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Fort William
Make: Humber Destroyer
Length: 5m +
Engine: Yamaha F80
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,512
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikey Dave View Post
Theoretically quite easy tbh. Depending on the setup of the rear rollers & depth of water, you could quite easily put 2-3 times the weight of the boat onto the winch. Itís all about the angles & leverage.
But surely that would indicate a poorly set up trailer?
__________________
There is a place on this planet for all of Gods creatures.........right next to my tatties and gravy.
A1an is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 September 2021, 14:33   #12
Member
 
Pikey Dave's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: South Yorks
Boat name: Black Pig
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: DF140a
MMSI: 235111389
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 10,857
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by A1an View Post
But surely that would indicate a poorly set up trailer?


Not really, think shallow slip, shallow water, you winch the boat upto the rear rollers/bunk, take the weight, the bow comes up to the rear rollers & lifts, the stern lowers as the bow comes up onto the rollers. Youíre now not pulling straight, so the winch is now trying to pull the boat to its tipping point, until it gets there, itís quite feasible that the load on the rope is more than the weight of the boat. Itís a simple Moments about a Point problem.
__________________
Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
Rule#3: Tha' can't educate pork.
Rule#4:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y
Pikey Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 September 2021, 17:57   #13
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: suffolk
Boat name: not yet
Make: Nautica/ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: Yam 115/ Honda 100
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by A1an View Post
But surely that would indicate a poorly set up trailer?
I can assure that my trailer is not poorly set up ,it has 28 as new rollers on ally wing brackets ,across 2 swing beams ,what i would say is the slip i am using is steep and water behind is very deep and sheltered between steel piling .
when calculating which winch to buy i read somewhere you should allow 2% for every degree of slope when you are dragging a free rolling load ,hence i allowed the boat at 1 ton max and 30 degrees of slope x 2% giving an additional calculated load of 600kg therefore max 1600 kg
As i always try to load and unload at max top of tyrewall depth (4" of water) which i have been happily doing for many years with a manual 1.5 ton 2 speed fulton winch ,i thought 2 ton would leave a little margin
well as i have said all is good ,but whether there is much left in reserve i am not convinced ! i think i may fit an ammeter so i can see where i am running within the capacity spec in their current to load tables
__________________
Orwell boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 September 2021, 04:34   #14
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Waterlooville
Boat name: Tickler
Make: Halmatic P22
Length: 6m +
Engine: Inboard Diesel 240HP
MMSI: 235115642
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,517
RIBase
It is perfectly possible to have winch loads greater than the displacement of a boat. It is just the fulcrum effect and in certain circumstances, getting a boat on to a trailer will mean the winch is at the 'wrong' end of the fulcrum hence the loads will go up to more than the displacement of the boat.

In _Monkey's photo, the turning block will see twice the load that is on the winch or the winch line which you may wish to bear in mind.
__________________
GuyC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 September 2021, 17:01   #15
Member
 
lakelandterrier's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Gloucester
Boat name: Lunasea
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: Suzi 140
MMSI: 232005050
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,793
What's the benefit of Dyeema rope over a webbing strap?
surely a nylon rope is more likely to catch / burn your hand than a flat strap if you need to handle / guide it?
__________________
Member of the Macmillan Round the Isle of Wight Club
lakelandterrier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 September 2021, 06:19   #16
Member
 
Pikey Dave's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: South Yorks
Boat name: Black Pig
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: DF140a
MMSI: 235111389
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 10,857
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakelandterrier View Post
What's the benefit of Dyeema rope over a webbing strap?

surely a nylon rope is more likely to catch / burn your hand than a flat strap if you need to handle / guide it?


Short answer, strength. Iíve had various straps break over the years, one of which nearly ended in serious injury. Been using a 12mm Dyneema for 5 years now, no sign of wear or damage.
__________________
Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
Rule#3: Tha' can't educate pork.
Rule#4:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y
Pikey Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 September 2021, 06:56   #17
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Nottinghamshire
Make: Ranieri 15
Length: 4m +
Engine: Suzuki DF50
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikey Dave View Post
Short answer, strength. I’ve had various straps break over the years, one of which nearly ended in serious injury. Been using a 12mm Dyneema for 5 years now, no sign of wear or damage.
Also with webbing it can go on folded which is an irritation.
I was considering getting some stainless rope and I'd never heard of Dyneema but this looks like a much better option. Just need to know the diameter for a 1t winch.

I'm using a second winch to draw boat and trailer up a dropped kerb more than I'm using it recovering on a slipway or beach to the car.

Edit: 6mm looks suitable, breaking at 2t, massive variations in price from various sellers.
__________________
Limecc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 September 2021, 07:12   #18
Member
 
Pikey Dave's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: South Yorks
Boat name: Black Pig
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: DF140a
MMSI: 235111389
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 10,857
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by Limecc View Post
Also with webbing it can go on folded which is an irritation.
I was considering getting some stainless rope and I'd never heard of Dyneema but this looks like a much better option. Just need to know the diameter for a 1t winch.

I'm using a second winch to draw boat and trailer up a dropped kerb more than I'm using it recovering on a slipway or beach to the car.


Iíd just go for the 12mm which is rated to 7t iirc. Waay over specced, but the price difference is minimal & itís easier to handle & lays better on the winch.
__________________
Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
Rule#3: Tha' can't educate pork.
Rule#4:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y
Pikey Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 September 2021, 07:15   #19
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Nottinghamshire
Make: Ranieri 15
Length: 4m +
Engine: Suzuki DF50
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikey Dave View Post
I’d just go for the 12mm which is rated to 7t iirc. Waay over specced, but the price difference is minimal & it’s easier to handle & lays better on the winch.
But larger dia might limit the length what i can get on and I'd like 15m. Need to check.

Regretting misbuying and not getting a two-speed winch.
__________________
Limecc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 September 2021, 11:14   #20
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Retford
Boat name: Spy-sea-one
Make: Excel 435
Length: 4m +
Engine: Suzuki Outboard/25/4
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 6,998
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikey Dave View Post
Iíd just go for the 12mm which is rated to 7t iirc. Waay over specced, but the price difference is minimal & itís easier to handle & lays better on the winch.
I bought 6mm it just cut through the layers a bugger to undo, new winch has strap Iíll stick with that now until itís knackered
__________________

__________________
jeffstevens763@g is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.