India Juliet to go

Solent Ranger · 13 December 2005, 22:14

Just seen on local news that Bristows has lost the contract to run Lee on Solent and Portland helo rescue services. To be replaced by a Candadian company - so, farewell India Juliet

DJL · 13 December 2005, 22:22

Not just Portland and Lee-on-Solent, Sumburgh and Stornoway as well.

Will be interesting to see how the new Agusta Bell AB139 performs.

http://www.bellagusta.com/air_ab_main.cfm

Doesn't quite have the same look - looks more like the USCG helos

codprawn · 13 December 2005, 22:48

Very sad news when you see how much good work they have done!!!

The helicopters they will be using aren't as suitable and even more worrying - what about 22 years of crew experience??? I think this is a dangerous STUPID descision probably made purely on the grounds of cost!!!

http://northtonight.grampiantv.co.uk...7775&newsType=

prairie tuber · 14 December 2005, 05:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solent Ranger

To be replaced by a Candadian company - so, farewell India Juliet

Sounds like a good deal to me.

Pete7 · 14 December 2005, 07:53

I am not so sure, this might be a good thing. The current helo (thats a mil frase to keep Codders happy

) at Lee on Solent is huge and could take alot of casualties, but most of there work is rescuing small numbers of peeps. A smaller heli with a higher speed and longer range / endurance is the argument for the change. If they are 22 years old now they have to be replaced sometime. At least there will be 3 of them for the Solent and Portland areas

Jon Brooks · 14 December 2005, 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Very sad news when you see how much good work they have done!!!

The helicopters they will be using aren't as suitable and even more worrying - what about 22 years of crew experience??? I think this is a dangerous STUPID descision probably made purely on the grounds of cost!!!

http://northtonight.grampiantv.co.uk...7775&newsType=

What makes you say the new chopper is unsuitable?
Are the current choppers not to big for the vast majority of the jobs they are tasked to?
Won't the smaller air frame make it eassier to land or get into spots that they have had trouble with before?
Surely the new birds will be better on fuel?
I think, from looking at the stats, that the wind up time and speed is better on the bell thus making response times better, I stand to be corrected.
Am sure the changes have not been taken lightly.

Don't get me wrong th service that is provided at the mo is second to none and should never be knocked but just trying to add a bit of perspective.
Our HMGC is the envy of all the world over, even the septics over the pond!!

Regards

codprawn · 14 December 2005, 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Brooks

What makes you say the new chopper is unsuitable?
Are the current choppers not to big for the vast majority of the jobs they are tasked to?
Won't the smaller air frame make it eassier to land or get into spots that they have had trouble with before?
Surely the new birds will be better on fuel?
I think, from looking at the stats, that the wind up time and speed is better on the bell thus making response times better, I stand to be corrected.
Am sure the changes have not been taken lightly.

Don't get me wrong th service that is provided at the mo is second to none and should never be knocked but just trying to add a bit of perspective.
Our HMGC is the envy of all the world over, even the septics over the pond!!

Regards

The SEA King wasn't called that for nothing!!! Most coastguard work is at sea hence open spaces unless it's cliff rescue work.

What about 22 years of experience - even more important than the aircraft!!!

Looking at past rescues there were quite a few situations where they carried off loads of people at once - a Sea King is capable of taking an entire crew off in one go from most normal merchant ships - wouldn't like to be one of the poor sods left behind when they use the new ones!!!

Scary Des · 14 December 2005, 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

......What about 22 years of experience - even more important than the aircraft!!!....

I understand a percentage of the current crew will stay. Des

Rogue Wave · 14 December 2005, 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

What about 22 years of experience - even more important than the aircraft!!!

It's a rather obtuse service provider that doesn't employ the previous firms staff, providing the Client was happy with them!

codprawn · 14 December 2005, 18:01

Well the people in shetland don't seem to happy about it - including one of their local councillors!!!

http://www.shetland-news.co.uk/pages/news%20stories/Nov%202005/doubts_over_mca's_chopper_choice.htm

What would a local councillor know??? That's what I thought until I read this bit.

"Shetland councillor Gordon Mitchell, a retired helicopter pilot who set up the Bristow base at Sumburgh Airport more than two decades ago, said introducing an untried helicopter in an air and rescue service would put the crew in an impossible situation."

Pete7 · 14 December 2005, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

What would a local councillor know??? That's what I thought until I read this bit.

So some old duffer who lives closer to Icleand than the Solent has got the hump because they can now fly past his airport.

Poly · 14 December 2005, 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

introducing an untried helicopter in an air and rescue service would put the crew in an impossible situation."

Don't mean to be stupid but all new equipment is untried the first time its used... ...otherwise equipment wouldn't evolve / improve?

As I understood it the operating company run similar services in other countries (including Ireland) and will continue to use many of the existing crew - do I don't see the problem. If mass casualty evacuation is required I would imagine that HMCG would call on the support of the RN/RAF who will still be using sea-kings...

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

The SEA King wasn't called that for nothing!!!

Of course not, it was called this because the marketting department at Sikorsky thought it was better (easier to remember / catchier) than SH3/S61A/B - surely your not implying that the name given to a product by the company that makes it actually has any bearing on its performance? Especially not over 40 years later?

NEIL

codprawn · 14 December 2005, 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete7

So some old duffer who lives closer to Icleand than the Solent has got the hump because they can now fly past his airport.

It isn't ONLY the Solent services that are being replaced Pete!!!

"Coastguard Helicopters operate from four bases around the British Isles. These are Sumburgh in the Shetland Isles, Stornoway in the Western Isles of Scotland, Lee-on-Solent in Hampshire, and Portland in Dorset"

codprawn · 14 December 2005, 19:59

Oh what the hell - obviously newer ALWAYS means better - may as well scrap the RAF ones as well and let the new company handle the lot.....

Alan · 14 December 2005, 20:13

CHC Helicopters have been around a good while in the offshore oil industry (the same business that Bristow come from). So I think they should know what they're about.........

http://www.chc.ca/

(Oh yeah and the bloke that started/owns it is a Newfoundlander!)

hard1 · 14 December 2005, 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

Of course not, it was called this because the marketting department at Sikorsky thought it was better (easier to remember / catchier) than SH3/S61A/B
NEIL

Gosh that takes me back. I actually worked on this machine when it was designated SH-3D back in the '60's before the Sea King moniker and it going into service. I worked for Louis Newmark Aircraft Division as a Technical Clerk in Croydon. We had the contract to design and develop the automatic pilot system and I worked for the chief environmental test design engineer, Tony Blezzard and his No. 2 Pat Bacon. I had many flights in the prototype out of Westlands in Yeovil and it was always a very safe and stable machine.

It's done a great job since, a really successful machine but it must cost thousands to keep it flying by today's standards. Spares would be difficult too.

keytouch · 14 December 2005, 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan

(Oh yeah and the bloke that started/owns it is a Newfoundlander!)

???????

Jon Brooks · 15 December 2005, 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

The SEA King wasn't called that for nothing!!! Most coastguard work is at sea hence open spaces unless it's cliff rescue work.

What about 22 years of experience - even more important than the aircraft!!!

Looking at past rescues there were quite a few situations where they carried off loads of people at once - a Sea King is capable of taking an entire crew off in one go from most normal merchant ships - wouldn't like to be one of the poor sods left behind when they use the new ones!!!

As stated the "Sea King" monica was given before the porduct was launch, oh yeah it would have not been tried and tested as a SAR bird at that time either!!

Hey Codders are you still using candles to see by?
That electrickery stuff is all a bit odd!!!

By doing a bit of reseach I have found that the S61N is rated for 4 crew and 19 passengers.
The new chopper is rated for 4 and 15.

Whilst you can get 35 in a S61N that would still not be the full crew for a large merchant ship.

All that will happen is that more choppers and boats will be sent depending on the nature of the problem.
The HMGC know what they are doing.

We should not dismiss stuff just cos its new.
Hell we would still be living in caves!!
Mind I have heard that SOME in Wales still do

Regards

ribrunt · 15 December 2005, 09:53

I think the issue is the S92...untried in SAR config and they're going to put it in the Scottish islands...well there's a testing ground if ever I saw it! The medium lift machines for the Solent probably make sense.

Crews will move - most of the Irish SAR crews moved to CHC when they took over from Irish Helos. The only thing I will say about CHC is they have stopped running winches from Inshore Lifeboats..."too dangerous" even there was never an incident with an RNLI boat, and that cas t/f technique was used over 40 times in a five year period!

I suspect they'll then buy Bristows 6 machines as backup for their Irish fleet

Cheers

RR

Richard B · 15 December 2005, 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by ribrunt

I think the issue is the S92...untried in SAR config...

I would be cautious of criticising a decision which has probably gone through intensive product assessment and trialling!
Have a look here for some more info: http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/s92/
"In February 2002, the Irish Air Corps selected the S-92 SAR (search and rescue) variant..."
The rantings of some journalist with no specialist knowledge sound like a classic case of "why let the facts get in the way of a good story".