India Juliet to go - Page 2

codprawn · 15 December 2005, 13:15

Not all journalists are the same - Jane's staff are so good ALL military planners use them as an acknowledged source.

I am not against change - just against change for change's sake. In other words if it ain't broke don't fix it!!!

DGR · 15 December 2005, 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Not all journalists are the same - Jane's staff are so good ALL military planners use them as an acknowledged source...

Most of the time yes, but they are also capable of publishing utter rubbish as well...

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

I am not against change - just against change for change's sake. In other words if it ain't broke don't fix it!!!

The problem with that approach is that when you suddenly realise that it's bust, then you have to run about like an idiot trying to knife and fork a remedy.

I seem to remember the Canadian Navy having the opportunity to replace their Sea Kings alongside either the Air Force or Army (or coastguard? Hazy on the detail...) - but didn't for the same reasons that you give for keeping them. Now they are in real trouble - with very few of them able to meet their flying rates because of maintenance and downtime. 22 years is quite old for an operational airframe - especially if it hasn't been relifed at some point.

D...

codprawn · 15 December 2005, 15:17

Most of the World's military aircraft were around at the time of the Vietnam war!!!

The Lockheed C-130 Hercules which is STILL the most versatile aircraft around actually came out in 1954...... nwere aircraft have come and gone but it's the Herc people still use!!!

Browning 0.5" machine gun - still in use to this day - came out in 1933.

Just because it's an old design doen't mean it should be scrapped. Obviously the older they get the harder they are to maintain - so just keep manufacturing them using modern techniques!!!

Richard B · 15 December 2005, 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

The Lockheed C-130 Hercules which is STILL the most versatile aircraft around actually came out in 1954...... nwere aircraft have come and gone but it's the Herc people still use!!!

But not necessarily the same version...

"The prototype flew in August 1954 and since then over 60 nations have ordered the Hercules. Those in use by the RAF are C-130K versions (known as Hercules C1 and C3) and initial deliveries (of a total of 66 ordered) were made during the mid-1960s and many are destined to remain in service for some years to come, although about half of the fleet have been replaced by the updated C-130J (Hercules C4 and C5)."

http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/hercules.html

BTW I don't think anyone was quoting from "Jane's" earlier.

codprawn · 15 December 2005, 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard B

But not necessarily the same version...

"The prototype flew in August 1954 and since then over 60 nations have ordered the Hercules. Those in use by the RAF are C-130K versions (known as Hercules C1 and C3) and initial deliveries (of a total of 66 ordered) were made during the mid-1960s and many are destined to remain in service for some years to come, although about half of the fleet have been replaced by the updated C-130J (Hercules C4 and C5)."

http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/hercules.html

BTW I don't think anyone was quoting from "Jane's" earlier.

Alright then - 1960s - still pretty old!!!

Sorry it wasn't Jane's - it was Flight International which is another equally respected journal and shares many of the same editors.

Richard B · 15 December 2005, 16:04

My point about the Hercs is that half the RAF's fleet have been replaced with the new version which is a major development of the original product. So neither the RAF nor Lockheed Martin are standing still!

codprawn · 15 December 2005, 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard B

My point about the Hercs is that half the RAF's fleet have been replaced with the new version which is a major development of the original product. So neither the RAF nor Lockheed Martin are standing still!

Couldn't agree more - there is ALWAYS room for improvement but people should never reject something JUST because it's an old design.

The last B52 was built in 1964 and they have no plans for changing them until at least 2040 - then again the sort of people the US choose to go to war with aren't exactly cutting edge either....

donutsina911 · 16 December 2005, 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Most of the World's military aircraft were around at the time of the Vietnam war!!!

The Lockheed C-130 Hercules which is STILL the most versatile aircraft around actually came out in 1954...... nwere aircraft have come and gone but it's the Herc people still use!!!

Browning 0.5" machine gun - still in use to this day - came out in 1933.

Just because it's an old design doen't mean it should be scrapped. Obviously the older they get the harder they are to maintain - so just keep manufacturing them using modern techniques!!!

Ask any herc pilot and they'll tell you that they'd give their right bollock to get more c17's - infinitely superior to the herc in every area. Only reason they are still used is cost.

Action Man · 18 December 2005, 17:26

well...........................i don't like it

codprawn · 20 December 2008, 21:15

I know this thread is 3 years old but couldn't resist...........

Just been reading that SAR teams are complaining about their new helis - the Augusta SW139 - seems they can't lift as much as the old S61 - they are very cramped and the new technology doesn't work................

They aren't allowed to fly at night but this story is even worse.

http://www.thisiswesternmorningnews....l/article.html

A DYING man was left dangling in mid-air for half a mile when the winch on a new coastguard helicopter broke, it has been revealed.

Poly · 20 December 2008, 21:38

Cod - you are implying this couldn't have happened on a Sea King. Not sure that is correct.

BruceB · 20 December 2008, 22:25

Well, Stornoway and Shetland operate S92's which if you have seen one up close seem to be considerably larger than the old s61's.
Having also seen one fly around with a good pilot at the helm it is obvious that they are quite manouverable. They are certainly very large inside.
The military are still the last option for extraordinary situations as they can use different flight rules and have low light gear on board.
Air ambulances and CG have to operate under civilian rules anyway. I have to admit I am looking forward to the first S92 trying to land at my facility, its a good bit longer than half the diameter of the pad, air ambulances are considerably shorter!

codprawn · 21 December 2008, 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

Cod - you are implying this couldn't have happened on a Sea King. Not sure that is correct.

No I am not - it's the size that's the main problem - or lack of it - and no matter how good they are nothing will change that!!!

Richard B · 12 February 2010, 13:35

"The Soteria Consortium has been chosen to provide a harmonised Search and Rescue Helicopter (SAR-H) service for the UK well into the 21st century, the Ministry of Defence and the Department for Transport announced today (9 Feb 10).

The MOD and the Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) together currently provide a 24-hour military and civil helicopter SAR service for the UK SAR region from 12 bases around the UK.

This Search and Rescue helicopter service is provided by the Royal Air Force and Royal Navy Sea Kings and a civilian helicopter service under contract to the MCA.

This capability will be replaced over the next decade through a single contract placed with Soteria that will retain a proportion of military aircrew working alongside civilian aircrew trained to the same high standards. The service will continue to be managed jointly by the MOD and the MCA."

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/De...iderChosen.htm

http://www.soteriasar.com

Rogue Wave · 12 February 2010, 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

very sad news when you see how much good work they have done!!!

The helicopters they will be using aren't as suitable and even more worrying - what about 22 years of crew experience??? I think this is a dangerous stupid descision probably made purely on the grounds of cost!!!

http://northtonight.grampiantv.co.uk...7775&newstype=

tupe ?

Rogue Wave · 13 February 2010, 20:21

Unfortunately theres a chopper hovering outside my house at the moment,which means they are looking for someone in the river.

hobbit555 · 16 February 2010, 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

Unfortunately theres a chopper hovering outside my house at the moment,which means they are looking for someone in the river.

Its the police helicopter looking for you !!!!

Rogue Wave · 17 February 2010, 00:08

I wish it was lifes been boring lately! Sadly I fear some poor sole was lost in the river Southampton water.

willk · 17 February 2010, 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

Sadly I fear some poor sole was lost in the river Southampton water.

Nasty plaice to end it...

chewy · 17 February 2010, 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by willk

Nasty plaice to end it...

Something fishy about the whole incident apparently....