2 Stroke can of worms - judge Judy

[Blankton]

I have not noticed any change in consumption moving from 4 to 2 stroke 15hp. Obviously I haven't been able to do a scientific back to back, but a weeks holiday of going fishing used the same amount of fuel. I could accept I might not notice a +/- 10% difference, but 50% would be very noticeable as I'd be needing to go to the petrol station a lot!

As the op has a sib rated to 15hp, I think he fits into the camp where a 2 stroke is potentially very beneficial, with less of the drawbacks that larger 2 strokes might have.

[Fenlander]

>>> weight advantage of the 2 strokes seems to evaporate almost entirely at the 20hp level.

Yes back in the day the majority of the 20hp 2-strokes were 50kg or so which was little different to the carb 4-strokes around 52kg as they were gradually introduced.

Of course broadly in the 20hp class was the 41kg Tohatsu 18hp 2-stroke, one of the holy trinity. I always fancied trying one but never quite got there.

I have very fond memories of the old school mid 80s 20hp 2-stroke Mariner which powered the first boat I owned that could plane and took us on some great Scottish West Coast trips. Here pulling away from a beach just off the Jura sound in a smooth smoke free and joyous way with such a nice sound.

Shows what a good hull design can do as the all up weight of boat, OB, KIT and crew was just over 1000lbs yet that 20hp powered it with ease.

BTW sorry you have to click through to Youtube... it's an old account of mine and I lost access to it years ago so can't change the permissions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGvrM7dG-ws

[Oldman2]

Ahh, a proper boat, well suited to a 20hp too.

[Tim M]

Originally Posted by Notebook

Perhaps I am asking the wrong questions
Ok so I buy one outside the eu. Pay all my taxes.
Place it on my boat.
Can I get pulled for having it I guess I am asking.
Like driving with no mot, tax seatbelt on a car?

No is the short answer.

As per the above replies, the onus is on the seller not to sell it to you. There's no legislation that stops you using it. If you can get your hands on one, I would say crack on. You can still buy them all over the place - including in the EU in places where nobody cares about silly legislation; I was in a chandlery in Italy not long ago and they had them there on the shelf to buy to anyone who would care to pay for them. I enquired with a well known dealer in the UK a few years ago who would happily sell me one if I wrote a letter on letter headed paper confirming it would only be used for commercial purposes. Which of course it would

[TmMorris]

Originally Posted by Fenlander

>>> weight advantage of the 2 strokes seems to evaporate almost entirely at the 20hp level.

Yes back in the day the majority of the 20hp 2-strokes were 50kg or so which was little different to the carb 4-strokes around 52kg as they were gradually introduced.

Of course broadly in the 20hp class was the 41kg Tohatsu 18hp 2-stroke, one of the holy trinity. I always fancied trying one but never quite got there.

I have very fond memories of the old school mid 80s 20hp 2-stroke Mariner which powered the first boat I owned that could plane and took us on some great Scottish West Coast trips. Here pulling away from a beach just off the Jura sound in a smooth smoke free and joyous way with such a nice sound.

Shows what a good hull design can do as the all up weight of boat, OB, KIT and crew was just over 1000lbs yet that 20hp powered it with ease.

BTW sorry you have to click through to Youtube... it's an old account of mine and I lost access to it years ago so can't change the permissions.

The noise of my childhood. A 20 Merc on a dory then a 40 Yam.

[69cmw]

Originally Posted by TmMorris

The noise of my childhood. A 20 Merc on a dory then a 40 Yam.

Nothing wrong with a 40 Yam 2 Stroke [emoji41]

[jeffstevens763@g]

Originally Posted by The Gurnard

Its just my opinion Notebook. but anyone who wants to swap a decent 25 HP four stroke for my 25HP Two stroke is more than welcome.. In my experience ..there is a very noticeable difference

Just checked some figures..Jeff and Myself did the exact same trip in July , same speeds and distance ..His 25HP Suzi EFI used 35 litres. My 25HP two stroke used 57 Litres plus 0.5 litre oil

Estimated Jeff cost at £1.35p per litre £47 my cost £82 which for me is quite a significant amount of money for one trip. The weight of extra fuel I have to carry for a decent day out is far more than the difference in weight of a 4 stroke compared to a two stroke.

When Im running my 25HP two stroke..I don’t bother switching on my handheld VHF as I cant hear a thing above the buzz. I do hear it and have it switched on when Im in a 25HP four stroke boat.


My neighbours when I lived in the city complained when I flushed the two stroke out in a bucket at home as the reek filled their rooms if their window was open.. I could understand it as I had to close all my windows. they never complained about the four stroke getting flushed and I didnt bother closing windows.

You hull is much more efficient than mine too Donny a like for like test would be interesting

[The Gurnard]

Hi Jeff .. We both know how noisy..smelly and fuel hungry my two stroke is compared to your 25HP EFI Suzi.. so we don’t really need a comparison as we have travelled side by side over most sea conditions and long distances together ..as have the other guys we go with.

You will also be aware that almost every week I fight with myself over buying a brand new Yamaha 25HP four stroke to put the issues I mention behind me. It was my interest in that purchase which made me look at this thread in the first place

If anyone doubts my claims on noise smell and efficiency of the old school carb two strokes ..its perhaps worth remembering that the EU banned them for leisure use *..not through badness ..but for the very reasons I mentioned.. they could no longer pass the noise.. pollution ..and efficiency tests that were brought in ... obviously the OBs we can still get new do pass them

*Edit for clarification in case my wording was not correct.. The EU banned the dealer sale of two strokes to leisure users..anyone can legally use their two strokes they have or buy second hand

[jeffstevens763@g]

Originally Posted by The Gurnard

Hi Jeff .. We both know how noisy..smelly and fuel hungry my two stroke is compared to your 25HP EFI Suzi.. so we don’t really need a comparison as we have travelled side by side over most sea conditions and long distances together ..as have the other guys we go with.

You will also be aware that almost every week I fight with myself over buying a brand new Yamaha 25HP four stroke to put the issues I mention behind me. It was my interest in that purchase which made me look at this thread in the first place

If anyone doubts my claims on noise smell and efficiency of the old school carb two strokes ..its perhaps worth remembering that the EU banned them for leisure use *..not through badness ..but for the very reasons I mentioned.. they could no longer pass the noise.. pollution ..and efficiency tests that were brought in ... obviously the OBs we can still get new do pass them

*Edit for clarification in case my wording was not correct.. The EU banned the dealer sale of two strokes to leisure users..anyone can legally use their two strokes they have or buy second hand

With the hull efficiency added it backs up your claim getting near to the 50% difference despite smell noise etc and for me I was always seasick with the two smoke :sick.

[Searider]

Originally Posted by Tim M

No is the short answer.

As per the above replies, the onus is on the seller not to sell it to you. There's no legislation that stops you using it. If you can get your hands on one, I would say crack on. You can still buy them all over the place - including in the EU in places where nobody cares about silly legislation; I was in a chandlery in Italy not long ago and they had them there on the shelf to buy to anyone who would care to pay for them. I enquired with a well known dealer in the UK a few years ago who would happily sell me one if I wrote a letter on letter headed paper confirming it would only be used for commercial purposes. Which of course it would

thats not correct. either putting on the market or putting into service.
you're unlikely to be questioned by Trading Standards however.

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by Fenlander

>>> weight advantage of the 2 strokes seems to evaporate almost entirely at the 20hp level.

Yes back in the day the majority of the 20hp 2-strokes were 50kg or so which was little different to the carb 4-strokes around 52kg as they were gradually introduced.

Of course broadly in the 20hp class was the 41kg Tohatsu 18hp 2-stroke, one of the holy trinity. I always fancied trying one but never quite got there.

I have very fond memories of the old school mid 80s 20hp 2-stroke Mariner which powered the first boat I owned that could plane and took us on some great Scottish West Coast trips. Here pulling away from a beach just off the Jura sound in a smooth smoke free and joyous way with such a nice sound.

Shows what a good hull design can do as the all up weight of boat, OB, KIT and crew was just over 1000lbs yet that 20hp powered it with ease.

BTW sorry you have to click through to Youtube... it's an old account of mine and I lost access to it years ago so can't change the permissions.

The 20 two stroke may be close to the newer 20 4 strokes but the two stroke advantage reappears when you get to the yamaha / mariner 30hp 2 cylinder which was the same engine as the 20, the 20 was the lard arse of the size range & most sensible folk would bypass it for a 25 or thirty the same weight

Sent from my SM-G950F using RIB Net mobile app

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Notebook

Perhaps I am asking the wrong questions

Probably! Technically the person who imports an engine from outside GB for recreational use which does not conform to the standard commits the offence. It’s also likely that if someone buys an engine with a legitimate use (eg commercial, race, rescue) that when they first offer it for sale to the recreational market that they would commit the offence. There is no offence of owning or operating - its import or putting on the market that are the problems.

As others have said are TS ever likely to have the time to investigate never mind pursue an individual? Not unless you’ve really gone out your way to piss people off. If you start importing and selling them expect a competitor to get pissed off and report you eventually.

I’ve never heard of anyone in the U.K. being asked to provide details of RCD conformity for boat or engine to harbour master etc - but it does happen on the continent in places which like paperwork and rubber stamps. I have heard anecdotally of some people being asked to confirm the boat was CE marked (not the engine specifically) for insurance policies - you may want to carefully read the small print: I am sure for the typical claim it would not be likely to be a problem but if you manage to cause someone life changing injuries and a six or seven figure claim their loss adjuster might just be bothered to start asking how you came to have such an engine in your possession…

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Small Ribber is back.

I don’t think we can assume that small ribber was that unique. There’s 65M people in the U.K. - there’s bound to be others just like him!

[909]

What's the newest 2 stroke that is available ?

My experience has been limited to older 2 strokes from the 70's

[Fenlander]

In Canada? You’lll have to tell us.

[909]

From my research and according to Leroy, 07 was the cutoff for JohnnyRudes

https://www.leeroysramblings.com/Out...0articles.html

[Tim M]

Originally Posted by Searider

thats not correct. either putting on the market or putting into service.
you're unlikely to be questioned by Trading Standards however.

"In the case of a private importer, where, in the course of that evaluation, the market surveillance authorities find that the product does not comply with the requirements laid down in this Directive, the private importer shall be informed without delay of the appropriate corrective action to be taken to bring the product into compliance with those requirements, to suspend the putting into service of the product or to suspend the use of the product, commensurate with the nature of the risk."

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...N#d1e2403-90-1

I stand by my previous comment about just cracking on with it as in reality no-one will notice/care.

Does anyone know if the UK going to continue enforcement/application of the RCD on products used within the UK now we've left the EU?

[The Gurnard]

Originally Posted by Tim M

I stand by my previous comment about just cracking on with it as in reality no-one will notice/care.

Really ???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwD1kG4PI0w

[Tim M]

Originally Posted by The Gurnard

Really ???

That video lost my interest about half a second in when I realised it was her……no idea what she’s got to say but I very much doubt it’s anything to do with 2 stroke outboards.

[The Gurnard]

Im no fan of her either ..but whether you like it or not ..most folks realise we have to care about pollution etc..which is the point I was making. It was in answer to your point..will anyone care