Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 20 January 2012, 16:50   #51
Member
 
spartacus's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Aberdeenshire
Boat name: Sula
Make: Ribcraft 4.8m
Length: 4m +
Engine: Tohatsu 60hp + aux
MMSI: 235087213
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,268
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by biffer View Post
Two things go through my mind.
1. If it keeps moving why haven't they chained it to the rocks
2. The Dutch who know about salvage could be on the boat getting the fuel off at the same time

A good salvage team could have gone through that boat by now and it will need to be secure anyway for pumping out all that fuel as it will alter the weight

sent from a remote device
Same thing crossed my mind. The owners (Carnival Corporation - a American/British (plc) company who own Costa, Cunard, Holland America, etc) aren't short of a bob or two... so money isn't the issue. Also their PR machine has gone into over-drive this week as the death-toll rises and they try to distance themselves from the Captain.

The Dutch salvage company SMIT are already involved - after sub-contracting the fuel disposal to an Italian company Neri. Could be they're simply better placed due to logistics, or some quirk of Italian jurisdiction, who knows?

Part of me feels they (owners/authorities) are simply not throwing enough resource at the situation, however this is purely a lay perspective on my part, so it could be they're doing everything physically possible, given the situation as it unfolds.

More details here: SMIT SMIT'S WORLD
Neri ::Neri Group::
__________________

__________________
Is that with or without VAT?
spartacus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20 January 2012, 17:24   #52
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Glasgow
Boat name: Dalriada
Make: Solent
Length: 5m +
Engine: Mariner 75
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 23
I was amazed and very disappointed in how quickly the company blamed the captain. I was taking to my mate (pilot) yesterday about it and he was saying that the same thing happens in the airline industry, in the event of an accident the airline will always try and blame human error as the maximum compensation payout is limited to £500k per person, if the airline is guilty it's unlimited.

There would also be the cost of reviewing and retro fitting any safety findings into the fleet, not to mention the potential drop in passenger revenue.

Wondering if the same is applicable to the cruise companies and that now the captain is apparently starting to accept some responsibility there has been some negotiation between the captain and the company re: compensation for being the fall guy.
__________________

__________________
creeg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20 January 2012, 17:51   #53
Member
 
mister p's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: LONDON
Make: SR4/ZODIAC/3D
Length: 4m +
Engine: 30T/40T
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,433
I wish REUTERS had a report on the whole event.
__________________
mister p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20 January 2012, 18:01   #54
Member
 
Anchorhandler's Avatar
 
Country: France
Town: Huisnes sur Mer
Boat name: Raufoss
Make: Avon
Length: 4m +
Engine: Mercury 50
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 789
Just a few points to add to this which may help explain a few things.

There seems to be a fascination with the ship capsizing.....as i mentioned previously, it would have been highly (and i mean highly) unlikely she would of capsized, to understand why, think of her laying on her side fully submerged under the water...now all the heavy components and machinery fitted to this vessel are deliberately installed on or below the normal waterline. With a normal draught of 9 meters or so 70% of the mass of the vessel is installed in only one tenth of the overall height from keel to uppermost deck. Now, thinking back to the vessel on its side and submerged...which way is it natuyrsally going to sink? Everything you see above the waterline of a cruise ship is made up of big empty spaces. (cabins, cinema's, receptions etc... These empty spaces weigh nothing in comparisson to the machinery and steelwork installed lower down. A lot of modern cruise ships have a superstructure made of aluminium too so would not be surprised if the concordia was the same. She is lying on her side due to the fact that she started sinking down in the water and followed the profile of the rocks underneath.

Attaching the vessel to the rocks is not as easy and straightforward as you may think, What are you going to use as anchor points?...anchors?...how do you get 5-10t anchors onto the rocks and position them in a way that they will hold? Further more, you have the problem of finding suitable fixing points on the vessel that will take the strain. Not sure what her deadweight was but probably circa 70000t so imagine the weight that would slowly need to be taken to stop her slipping. You would have to pass the chains through or obove the passenger decks and weld suitable strengthening onto the lower sections of the exposed hull. From a time frame point of view, its just not practcal to try anything like that.
At best if the depth of water is enough you could possibly get a couple of the salvage tugs to keep pushing up on the hull untill a plan is put into place to pump out the fuel oil.

IMHO she is a total loss and will be cut up in place. She will be insured using what is called a "P&I club" arrangment where several ship owners/companies contribute to a central pot. It is these shipping companies that will feel the hit as the 'pot' will take a huge battering because of this and will need refilling (thanks to increased contributions from each shipping company members)

The fuel in her bunker tanks can be pumped without two much hassle, it just requires the right type of pumping equipment. Fuel oil only needs heating to reduce its viscosity in order to filter it and pass it through the engines fuel pumps. (which have a very fine tolerance). Simply pumping fuel oil for the sake of transfering it is relatively straight forward.

Anyway, hope this helps with understanding a bit more about how such vessels work.

Simon
__________________
C'est pas l'homme qui prend la mer, c'est la mer qui prend l'homme....
Anchorhandler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20 January 2012, 18:09   #55
Member
 
Country: Finland
Town: Helsinki
Boat name: SR 5.4
Make: Avon
Length: 4m +
Engine: Toh1 3,5 Yam 90/2S
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 896
Quote:
Originally Posted by creeg View Post
I was amazed and very disappointed in how quickly the company blamed the captain. I was taking to my mate (pilot) yesterday about it and he was saying that the same thing happens in the airline industry, in the event of an accident the airline will always try and blame human error as the maximum compensation payout is limited to £500k per person, if the airline is guilty it's unlimited.

There would also be the cost of reviewing and retro fitting any safety findings into the fleet, not to mention the potential drop in passenger revenue.

Wondering if the same is applicable to the cruise companies and that now the captain is apparently starting to accept some responsibility there has been some negotiation between the captain and the company re: compensation for being the fall guy.
Spot on. I guess that one of the outcome from the investigations to come, will be issues with the safety culture on board the vessel. And in today's world, that means not only blames on the Master but also on owners top rank management. That means that some of owners management might, in a worst case scenario, will serve hard time.....

So would not be surprised if some "negotiations" have taken place between owners and master in mutual "understanding" to focus the blame on master, saving other management.
Speculation only but who knows.

So far have not seen much information that makes me feel any sympathy for the master, the more details relieved, the more shocking it all seams. The only sensible thing he seams to be doing that night was to beach the ship close to shore.

Her a interesting simulation, no idea how this compares to the truth. The whole "show of "is totally a nut heads action, and doing so with such a steep angel is even more stupid.

__________________
fun on a boat is inversely proportional to size...sort of anyway
C-NUMB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 January 2012, 04:24   #56
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Weymouth
Length: no boat
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 245
Salvage!!! as others have said smit are looking at the job. Having worked with smit on the Napoli salvage/ wreck removal it takes a great deal of time to carry out a salvage job. Mobilising equipment takes time and the biggest cranes are never just sitting waiting for the next cruise ship to capsize.
Ships a built to float. once you put them on the bottom all stability calculations go out the window.
A possible reason for her tipping over is that as she was beached, using bow thruster the lower hull stopped and the momentum of the top sides continued towards the shore. The resulting heel of the vessel then caused the water with in the vessel following the grounding the. Was able to move across to the starboard side of the vessel resulting in capsize. Had she not been on the bottom I think the vessel would have completely turned over.
Therefore naval architects and salvage engineers are working on different scenarios to salvage the vessel. As far as i am aware Nothing this large has been par buckled upright and refloated. Would be amazing if this was done but I think. But costs would be prohibitive. Next option wreck removal which is very messy, pollution etc.
__________________
I went alongside the carrier, I survived and didnt even get shot at!!!
hobbit555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 January 2012, 17:15   #57
RIBnet supporter
 
Ian M's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: New Milton
Boat name: Jianna
Make: Osprey
Length: 6m +
Engine: 200 E-TEC
MMSI: 235076954
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,933
The news is now saying that the operators knew all about the coast hugging course, it had been followed many times before, and it was encouraged for publicity purposes. Definately more to this than reported to date.
__________________
Ian

Dust creation specialist
Ian M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 September 2013, 05:40   #58
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: North Lincolnshire
Length: no boat
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 49
Reuters are running live video of the salvage operation to right the ship.
Raising the Costa Concordia | Reuters.com

A few RIB's floating about too.
__________________
bcervelo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 September 2013, 05:55   #59
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Poole
Boat name: Exodus
Make: Tohatsu
Length: 7m +
Engine: Evinrude 150
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 275
Painfully slow but compelling to watch
__________________
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former --- Albert Einstein
Into The Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 September 2013, 05:57   #60
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Poole
Boat name: Exodus
Make: Tohatsu
Length: 7m +
Engine: Evinrude 150
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 275
This is an animation of how it should work
Così verrà messa in sicurezza la Concordia - Animazione - Repubblica Tv - la Repubblica.it
__________________

__________________
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former --- Albert Einstein
Into The Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:32.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.