which glue is best?

roydavies · 18 August 2021, 09:49

Hi people of the ribbersphere got myself a ZODIAC YACHTLINE 420 last year and have had about 10 days out in the baby but last time we were blasting along at full tilt water was coming in between the tube and the gunwhales of the hull.

Having deflated the tubes ive discovered the strip that holds the tube to the hull (Its got a big beading like an awning attaches to a caravan) has detatched for about half of its length.

The tube is off the boat and is being patiently cleaned and prepped for reatachment.......QUESTION for those with better knowledge than this newbie is.......

1) What is the tube made from some websites say PVC some hyperlon....how do i tell ...and

2) whats the best adhesive to use to repair the bugger

any pointers would be well received

cheers roy in landlocked sheffield

spartacus · 18 August 2021, 22:07

All leisure Zodiacs will be PVC (strongan duotex). You Can get neoprene/hypalon on the Pro range on some models if you specify it.

On PVC (assuming you have a patch kit with the boat), it's the same colour on both sides. With hypalon, then the underside of the material is darker.

Back to your predicament, I think you're referring to the bead or tube rail that engages with the channel on the hull. Just as well you spotted it - the force of the water could get between the hull and the tube and damage it further. Zodiac probably thermo-bonded this part, so it's a critical item and the repair needs to be correct.

Look at Polymarine's site - there's glue, solvent and instructions. Preparation is everything and ambient temperatures with low humidity, so pick a decent day, out of direct sunlight with plenty ventilation. Mask off the exposed part of the tube so you can make a clean job. I'd inflate the tubes to pressure for this repair. Keep the tubes off the ground to avoid dust and contamination - pasting tables or work-benches would work.

Ribstore · 19 August 2021, 16:25

The tubes and the 'bolt rope' will be PVC.

Two ways of tacking this...

1) repair it - use 2 part PVC adhesive and MEK solvent. The part would have been glued originally - I doubt it would have been welded as mentioned by Spartacus (I've certainly only ever seem them glued on). BUT, the repair may or may not last. Typically when I've seen it done, even by professionals it doesn't last unfortunately. Give everything a really good tug and don't be surprised if another part fails soon.

My comments above lead to option 2...

2) retube in hypalon.

Sam

PS - you can purchase the 2 part PVC adhesive and MEK from my store for prompt dispatch. Just visit this link: https://www.ribstore.co.uk/collectio...-adhesive-glue

spartacus · 19 August 2021, 22:01

Fair comment Sam - is there anything that can be done to strengthen the bolt rope where it attaches to the tube? Almost like running the equivalent of seam tape to overlap the repair the entire length of the boat rope on both sides.

Not convinced about a retube in hypalon given potential costs but I know it would last longer. I should remember to add RIBstore as a link for glue and patches as Polymarine's aren't even a supporter of the site as far as I'm aware.

Zodiac are expensive for replacement tubes, but you never know.

Roy - speak to a main dealer so you have options available would be my advice.
https://www.inflatableboats.com/Yach...-Set-Z1623.htm

fastasfox · 20 August 2021, 07:56

Ok I'm no expert but this us what I know....once the glue starts to let go then every seem is at risk and you end up chasing the problem. I had a Zodiac Sib and this was the case for me. If I owned your boat I would do a fix to get me back on the water ( give IBS a call ) they will advise you about glue. But the honest truth is you should start to save for new tubes or move it on....not doomongering but I think if you call a few expert they will say re-tube it. Best of Luck to you Pal.

Ribstore · 20 August 2021, 08:38

An extra strip of fabric would in theory help yes. Zodiac are currently really behind I believe with tubes and I'm not sure if they do hypalon or just PVC. I'm not sure how their prices of PVC tubes fair compared to a UK retube in hypalon either - I have a feeling they're not much different.

Retube or retire the boat is the long term option.

jwalker · 20 August 2021, 19:37

Why do they fail after the repair?

fastasfox · 20 August 2021, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwalker

Why do they fail after the repair?

Degradation....UV affects the glue..hardening it.

jwalker · 20 August 2021, 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastasfox

Degradation....UV affects the glue..hardening it.

But this is an underside repair, not much sun there.

909 · 21 August 2021, 03:06

Factories typically use a 2 part glue.

It consists of a hardener , which is usually the culprit. The hardener never stops hardening.

So when your boat leaves the factory, it literally has expiry date.

How you take care of it , avoiding UV , moisture , extreme temps, stress from rolling and packing , or an outboard , will either prolong or accelerate the deterioration of the glue.

Whether you have hypalon or PVC , all boats use glue. Period. Not everything can be heat welded in the machine.

The material always outlasts the glue. All glue will eventually fail.

The reason why repairs fail is usually because of air. Press you finger . Does it feel mushy? Especially around the transom? Is there an air gap in your repair ? Do you completely dry your boat after every use ? Chances are if air can get inside, so can moisture. Bad things can happen when you have moisture or a pool of water that can never dry out next to glue . It accelerates deterioration.

That single tube you get in the repair kit is temporary . Garbage in my opinion. Get a 2 part. Mix only what you need. Keep everything sealed. Seal it even while you're using it. And it's all about the prep. Clean 3 or 4 or 5 times before you mix your glue. And press out all the air.

Good luck

roydavies · 21 August 2021, 09:23

thanks for your aadvice bud.....am going for it on monday ....will report back !!

roydavies · 21 August 2021, 09:37

hi all those who have advised me......cant afford 3 grand to retube!! am going to have a go at repair

About 1 mtr has become detached .... the rest of it looks proper adhered.....i think it may have been repaired before with dodgy rubbery glue.....the glue which can be rolled off with yer thumb!

so ive put up the big tent in garden....taken tubes off hull.......cleaned the surfaces...and about to clean again!! and am planning to do the repair in the tent (its a massive family tent!) to keep it warm and dry.

Thinking about responses.....uv...glue degrading ...etc

The beading strip really never gets UV as its tucked under the side of hull....and theres no air pressure forcing it to delaminate.....anyway am going to give it a go and will post the results here

cheers for all the info people !

909 · 21 August 2021, 09:45

Yeah buddy.

Clean. Clean. Clean. Clean.

Tape.

Glue . Glue . Glue

Heat gun.

Press. Hard. Press again. Harder.

Repeat.

Eric · 21 August 2021, 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by roydavies

hi all those who have advised me......cant afford 3 grand to retube!! am going to have a go at repair

About 1 mtr has become detached .... the rest of it looks proper adhered.....i think it may have been repaired before with dodgy rubbery glue.....the glue which can be rolled off with yer thumb!

so ive put up the big tent in garden....taken tubes off hull.......cleaned the surfaces...and about to clean again!! and am planning to do the repair in the tent (its a massive family tent!) to keep it warm and dry.

Thinking about responses.....uv...glue degrading ...etc

The beading strip really never gets UV as its tucked under the side of hull....and theres no air pressure forcing it to delaminate.....anyway am going to give it a go and will post the results here

cheers for all the info people !

It would be a good practice to sand the area to be glued to give it a rough surface for the glue to adhere to.

Limecc · 21 August 2021, 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ribstore

you can purchase the 2 part PVC adhesive and MEK from my store for prompt dispatch. Just visit this link: https://www.ribstore.co.uk/collectio...-adhesive-glue

I'm assuming this will also glue the PVC of a 6x3m tarpaulin the same as a lorry curtainside and will be easier, cheaper and better than stitching to make a robust diy boat cover. Might give it a go or just keep on folding the excess on the corners.

Ribstore · 23 August 2021, 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limecc

I'm assuming this will also glue the PVC of a 6x3m tarpaulin the same as a lorry curtainside and will be easier, cheaper and better than stitching to make a robust diy boat cover. Might give it a go or just keep on folding the excess on the corners.

Yes - if the curtain is PVC this glue can be used on that too.

Ribstore · 23 August 2021, 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwalker

Why do they fail after the repair?

It's a high stress point on the tubes, the PVC has hardened with age too which doesn't help.

PVC glue isn't as good as hypalon glue, hence PVC tubes are often welded.

Is a fix worth a go - to get you through a season I think most people would say yes, BUT be very wary the repair may fail or even more likely is the unrepaired parts may fail. Certainly worth bearing this in mind and planning where you go/who you take out and in what conditions....

roydavies · 24 August 2021, 13:31

hi all and thanks sofar.....when i do get the glue and solvent would it be best to deflate the tube and then glue.....like then can i raise it up on a camping table and really give it a rub to bond the two surfaces....also thinking of running a reinforcement strip along the seaward edge.....any thoughts!?

roydavies · 27 September 2021, 16:59

so.........after many an hour cleaning with mek i have repaired the bolt rope and added a reinforcing strip and it looks pukka.....im confident that it will actually be sorted for a good while.....trials on ullswater to follow!

office888 · 27 September 2021, 22:27

Lots of interesting theories in here, but they're all phlogiston.

///

The tubeset is PVC likely. Both materials were offered.

For rebonding, it is vital that all old adhesive is removed. Methylene chloride is the most effective chemical for removal, but it's carcinogenic. Short of that, methyl ethyl ketone can be utilized to soften the old adhesive, then scrub with an abrasive mesh pad.

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Why do PVC bonds fail?

The material, plasticizer migration.

PVC is a thermoform plastomer (polyvinyl chloride)
CSM ("hypalon" , CSM/CR) is a thermoset elastomer (chlorosulfonated polyethylene)

Thermosets tend to be chemically stable. Thermoforms tend not to be.

Over time, PVC sweats plasticizing oils (pthalates). This is accelerated by exposure to hydrocarbons (Diesel soot/spilled gasoline), UV exposure (thanks sun), and strong acids (bottom cleaner)/bases (strong soaps). The adhesive is resistant, but not compatible with the plasticizer. Eventually, the plasticizer from the PVC material reacts with the adhesive, causing it to become plasticized, which causes a cohesive failure mode of the adhesive.

Darker colors do a better job at being chemically stable, but the heat generated from the neutralizing UV radiation tends to degrade the adhesive too (even with CSM/CR material).

Worse yet, as the material degrades and loses plasticizer, it sometimes becomes brittle and starts cracking, or flaking away from the scrim cloth. If the material is completely unstable, it may adopt a "sticky" feel to it. Degraded material will yield a worse bond when repaired.

Prolonged solvent exposure from the repair process can also degrade the material, which will produce a worse bond.