Divers Down

Bigmuz7 · 12 February 2010, 12:23

Was taking a cruise along a well known haunt at almost full bung a couple of years back .. which involved a long sweep round a large bay .. about to set my exit course to avoid shallow areas of 4m or so half way along and noticed some sort of service vessel about 30' long in the distance ahead just off the shore and proceeded to go tighter on my turn out to give it a wide berth and keep well clear.. noticed a geezer waving from the deck .. more than just an acknowledgement and suddenly thought possibly divers in area so ..even tighter lock to keep even further clear, and headed straight out of the bay instead, at reduced speed... As it happens, the area that the vessel was in, and a large area around it is shallow, and not really navigable at any speed anyway, but I wondered, shouldn't they have a boat standing off to act as an outer marker if they have guys down ? or is there some other convention to state the purpose of the vessel if it has divers on it ? and is there a convention that restricts the distance a diver can go from the support vessel ?

I've never seen this vessel before, or in this location, which is not known for diving in this area either, and it seemed too easy for the un intiated to stumble across a situation at high speed without realising what was going on. Because it was quite far off, any visible notification would be less effective due to the distance I'd imagine, but whats the general view ?

neil.mccrirrick · 12 February 2010, 12:28

Ideally there should be a boat standing off as you say, in addition it should be flying a flag with a diagonal cross on, to indicate divers in the water.

In any event, the divers should either surface up their boats line, or if that's not possible, if the boat isn't anchored, they should send up a marker buoy, from depth, and then come up that line.

Surfacing in open water, at a non designated dive site, where there is boat traffic is tantamount to suicide IMHO

ashbypower · 12 February 2010, 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by neil.mccrirrick

Ideally there should be a boat standing off as you say, in addition it should be flying a flag with a diagonal cross on, to indicate divers in the water.

Errr NO the convention is to fly the International "A" Flag coloured White ( Near the Staff) and Blue outer edge the Blue side is in a "V" shape check out international Flags and there meaning !!

neil.mccrirrick · 12 February 2010, 12:43

Oops sorry, you are right, I think I was having a senior moment there, or my descriptive powers failed completely, especially as I have the flag, for diving

Thanks for the correction

neil.mccrirrick · 12 February 2010, 12:49

Here you go, for completeness:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diver_down_flag

This can be used as well, which I poorly described

neil.mccrirrick · 12 February 2010, 12:51

Here's the one ashbypower references

BruceB · 12 February 2010, 19:56

The red version is the North american version which would not be recognised as a dive flag by many folk in Europe.
In saying that I have had folk motor across to ask me what the blue and white flag means and mine is a large ship sized version which about a third the length of the RIB

There is no "distance" from the support vessel that is laid down but generally a support boat would be either moored in the area of operations or try to stay between passing traffic and the diving area, intercepting other traffic as required.
All other vessels are required to give any vessel flying a dive flag, which should only be flown when divers are actually down, a wide berth.

m chappelow · 12 February 2010, 21:41

If he was that bothered about immunity from other craft, he should as was said above displayed the A alpha flag .and even then perhaps a larger board with a painted Aflag ,problem with flags is ,they only show,, side on to the wind direction so it can be easy to not spot one straight away, ,. if they were using commercial surface supplyed air to the divers or they had no other boat cover for s.c,u.b.a divers they should maybe have put out a navigation warning on v.h.f. .....opposite problems go for diving boats that seem to think its ok to permanently display the A flag when they are not acually diving but perhaps fishing or intransit to the dive site .then they wonder why other boats take no notice when they are actually diving ....oh and its not good practise to dive in a busy or dedicated channel or inshore shipping lane ,

Ian M · 12 February 2010, 21:46

I think this thread started by describing a professional diving operation. However the most forceful example I know of keeping other vessels away from divers in the water concerns sport divers and a local (to me) hardboat charter skipper, known for his clear thinking.

With divers in the water, and the 'A' flag clearly displayed, Roger rammed a passing yacht who would not take the hint when he placed his boat between said yacht and the divers.
Sadly Roger has now retired, and no-one I know of has taken up the task of torpedo impressions

m chappelow · 12 February 2010, 21:54

soz duplicate ,

Stoo · 12 February 2010, 23:03

The red/white "Diver Down" flag is generally used by shore divers and most charter boats. In Canada anyway, it carries no legal weight except in some locations. For example, my place in Tobermory sits in the middle of a National Marine Park. The red and white flag must be flown by law and there have been boaters charged for coming too close to it.

Otherwise, the blue/white alpha flag is flown from boats. It carries legal standing as it means "I have a diver down, stay clear". Much of the diving I do is in (under?) shipping lanes. I fly the alpha flag and the diver down flag. I also leave Mrs. Stoo aboard with the VHF mic taped to her hand. On at least two occasions, she has "asked" 700' lakers to alter their course sightly and they were kind enough to do so...

But as others point out, a wise diver will surface at his vessel...

SPR · 13 February 2010, 00:13

I hate Dive boats flying the A flag doing 30 knots! another pet hate is divers using slips as means to enter water, or hanging around entrances of harbour... and not showing flags etc.....

although I been told they can hear an engine and they hit the bottom....

S.

biffer · 13 February 2010, 06:48

in shallow water, say 10m, we used to make divers tow an SMB, safety marker buoy, at the very least boaters who haven't a clue would think it was a fishing pot

Sonar · 13 February 2010, 07:07

I have seen a number of dive ribs in my area. The Northeast ..
I have never seen any flying the dive white and blue flag while moving.

I have however seen a few with the blue and white flag flying while static and have always slowed down and given them a very wide berth .

and had a wave of thanks from the boat crew.

And the thing about the dive ribs some are a very long way out in the middle of nowhere.

All friendly guys.

I do not dive myself.

biffer · 13 February 2010, 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonar

I have seen a number of dive ribs in my area. The Northeast ..
I have never seen any flying the dive white and blue flag while moving.

I have however seen a few with the blue and white flag flying while static and have always slowed down and given them a very wide berth .

and had a wave of thanks from the boat crew.

And the thing about the dive ribs some are a very long way out in the middle of nowhere.

All friendly guys.

I do not dive myself.

the flag denotes divers down and should be removed when underway

chewy · 13 February 2010, 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonar

I have seen a number of dive ribs in my area. The Northeast ..
I have never seen any flying the dive white and blue flag while moving.

I have, it had a wooden "flag" which was fastened to the console, it stayed up all the time.

biffer · 13 February 2010, 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by chewy

I have, it had a wooden "flag" which was fastened to the console, it stayed up all the time.

slap your wrist, unless you're towing a diver on a sledge

chewy · 13 February 2010, 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by biffer

slap your wrist, unless you're towing a diver on a sledge

Does a fish box count as a sledge?

It was the dive club's boat I used to be a member of, to say the boat wasn't upto much was an understatement.

Bigmuz7 · 13 February 2010, 22:31

So flags and outer markers are the norm then ok... and if my prop dices a divers head if he wanders its his fault then ? good..... I'm glad we cleared that up

chewy · 13 February 2010, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

So flags and outer markers are the norm then ok... and if my prop dices a divers head if he wanders its his fault then ? good..... I'm glad we cleared that up

Is it the same when shooting seals and you accidently mistake a diver as a seal and shoot him?