Bilge pump for hull water? - Page 3

ian parkes · 13 July 2006, 19:55

Just had that bailer fitting out . its definatly the source of the leak , and most of the water must have been getting in from the outside .
there is no void there just solid plywood inside the fibreglass and the water was going between the two .

I need a new fitting really or at least the screw ring on the outside as the threads slip when I tighten it up .

As it was wet allready i cleaned and sanded it up and re fitted it using LSX which is a sort of silicone that plumbers use which cures in water . It will also be easier to remove again when i get a new fitting .

I also had the corner of the wear patch coming unstuck on the underneath of the tube at the rear. I tried a little solvent cement on it that is used for gluing pvc plumbing pipe . It seemed to work well so will report how well it stays stuck .
Off to Scilly saturday so no time for anything better .

jgrace · 13 July 2006, 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian parkes

Just had that bailer fitting out . its definatly the source of the leak , and most of the water must have been getting in from the outside .
there is no void there just solid plywood inside the fibreglass and the water was going between the two .

Congrats on the detective work, Ian!

And thanks. It would appear to match my leak pattern too. I'll try take a look tomorrow. Unfortunately I think I'll have to take the transom lock and/or the engine off to get at it properly

Jim

Nos4r2 · 13 July 2006, 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgrace

The friend's one-way flap is on his hull drain, can you use an expanding plug on a hull drain?

I don't fancy putting my head in the water next to the prop trying to plug the hull drain after it has emptied!

Jim

Depends how hard it is to get down that far I guess but I reckon you'd have to replace the hull drain with the self-bailer unit that polymarine sell-they also sell an expanding plug for that unit if you look at some of the other stuff on that page.

I've bought the avon sized self-bailer adapter and plug myself so when it arrives I'll know if it's possible....

Searider · 14 July 2006, 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgrace

Neat!

What diameter tube are you using?

Jim

Chose the pipe to match the fittings on the pump - 3/4"

ian parkes · 14 July 2006, 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Depends how hard it is to get down that far I guess but I reckon you'd have to replace the hull drain with the self-bailer unit that polymarine sell-they also sell an expanding plug for that unit if you look at some of the other stuff on that page.

I've bought the avon sized self-bailer adapter and plug myself so when it arrives I'll know if it's possible....

Just had a look at polymarine , looks like a good site .
I can't see any sort of drain that would suit the valiant hull drain in the form of an auto bailer . They have deck drains that look similar to the valiant ones .42mm i think and Iam pretty sure its a standard plumbing fitting size . I got a new nut from a plumbing fitting today so after the weekend I will try it . My LSX repair looks solid now its dry so will; leave it there for the weekend to prove its the deck bailer leaking.

Seamark nunn sell the actual Valiant deck drain , so may get a whole new one for the sake of few quid . It seems to me the fitting may be better with two flat rubber washers as you would use on a sink etc instead of sealant which always seems to fail in the end and is then a mess to clean up and get sealed again

Nos4r2 · 14 July 2006, 21:29

The self-bailer arrived- It's not really realistic to use the Avon one I've got here to self-drain a hull as it fits on the outside like a bung and the seal isn't that good. It'll make a good emergency bung though. Maybe the one they've got on the site that self-drains and has its own bung as well...?

ian parkes · 14 July 2006, 21:46

well the valiant hull mysteries are all revealed .
the front(anchor locker) appears to be seperate from the rest of the hull but it isn't . if you run your hands around the top edge at the aft end its completely open and if it fills up with water it will just pour over into the hull .
The fact that the hatch obviously leaks makes leaving the boat out in the rain a dead cert fot the hull filling up .
Unless you can get it off the water to drain every day or so a pump is the only way forward .

Iam wondering if a hose pushed through the gap at the top of the anchor locker down to the stern could be conected to a pump when required .A 4m length of garden hose and a hand pump that fits it would sort it out as a stopgap measure .

jgrace · 14 July 2006, 22:31

Ian, you're not saying that the anchor locker was the problem all along, are you?

I've no doubt you're right that it opens directly to the hull void, but it's got a relatively tiny catchment area for rainfall. I reckon no more than a square metre of the plan area of the boat could possibly end up in the anchor locker. It's probably a great deal less but let's stick with a square metre for the purposes of calculation:

The hull area that floods is say 1m by 3m therefore 3 sq metres. To fill that to an average depth of say 4" would therefore requires 12" of rain landing in the catchment area of the anchor locker! When's the last time we got 12" of rain in a few days?

Jim

jgrace · 14 July 2006, 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Searider

Chose the pipe to match the fittings on the pump - 3/4"

A 3/4" hole in the deck can hardly do much harm, so sounds good from a structural point of view. The only drawback I can think of is the design involves a permanent spigot rather than a flush fitting.

Jim

jgrace · 16 July 2006, 12:37

The new hull drain fitting and bung seems to have sorted my leak. Had the boat on the water all day yesterday and barely a drop got in. Next step would have been the deck drain as per Ian's comments, which in my case would have meant the engine coming off. Very glad I don't have to do it!

Jim

ian parkes · 17 July 2006, 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgrace

Ian, you're not saying that the anchor locker was the problem all along, are you?

I've no doubt you're right that it opens directly to the hull void, but it's got a relatively tiny catchment area for rainfall. I reckon no more than a square metre of the plan area of the boat could possibly end up in the anchor locker. It's probably a great deal less but let's stick with a square metre for the purposes of calculation:

The hull area that floods is say 1m by 3m therefore 3 sq metres. To fill that to an average depth of say 4" would therefore requires 12" of rain landing in the catchment area of the anchor locker! When's the last time we got 12" of rain in a few days?

Jim

No iam not saying the problem is the anchor locker , just that if the locker fills up water can run back into the hull .

Just had mine on the water for over 48hrs and there was still at least a gallon or maybe two in the hull , so the deck drainer hasn't cured the leak , but maybe slowed it down . A pump or possibly some way of opening the hull drain as Iam moving to draw out water is the only way . Iam now at a total loss , but its not often the boat is afloat overnight so no panick .

We had no rain but did have some rough seas so there was some water getting into the boat , but the anchor locker didn't fill up as I used the anchor when we got to Scilly

fjarvis · 17 July 2006, 18:33

I'd been having exactly the same problem - if I left my boat in the water overnight there would be a *lot* of water in the void under the floor. After reading this thread, resealed the bung connector (in my boat the bung is threaded and screws in) and put teflon tape on the bung itself. Now all seems perfect, boat was on the water for about 30hrs and there was only a drible of water (50ml ish).

ian parkes · 17 July 2006, 18:38

Iam on the hunt for a self bailing plug like the one at Polymarine but in the right diameter .

Also earlier in this post I mentioned using polypipe pvc pipeweld to gleu back a little flap on the wear patch , it didn't last so now after some proper glue
whats best ?? for the valiant

jgrace · 17 July 2006, 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjarvis

(in my boat the bung is threaded and screws in)

The lower of the two drains (i.e. the hull drain) on the Valiant is threaded just like yours. The Valiant's deck drain is the one with the expanding bung.

Good to hear you got sorted, sounds like both of our leaks were in the same place.

Jim

jgrace · 17 July 2006, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian parkes

Just had mine on the water for over 48hrs and there was still at least a gallon or maybe two in the hull , so the deck drainer hasn't cured the leak , but maybe slowed it down . A pump or possibly some way of opening the hull drain as Iam moving to draw out water is the only way . Iam now at a total loss , but its not often the boat is afloat overnight so no panick .

Might be worth trying the hull drain. The o-ring on mine looked a bit cracked but screwed in tight, making it hard to believe it was the source of such a big leak. But it was!

Jim

ian parkes · 17 July 2006, 20:00

Was the first thing I tried , i filler the hull with some water and put the bung in to test it .
Unless its a one way leak

jgrace · 17 July 2006, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian parkes

Also earlier in this post I mentioned using polypipe pvc pipeweld to gleu back a little flap on the wear patch , it didn't last so now after some proper glue
whats best ?? for the valiant

I understand Valiants make / have made ribs in Hypalon, polyurethane, PVC and possibly even a patent plastic of their own. Suggest you contact a Valiant agent with your boat number so he can tell you what your spec is.

Jim

jgrace · 17 July 2006, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian parkes

Was the first thing I tried , i filler the hull with some water and put the bung in to test it .
Unless its a one way leak

Even when mine was carrying a quarter of a ton of water in the hull, on the trailer on a slip, nothing came out until I unscrewed the bung!

ian parkes · 17 July 2006, 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgrace

Even when mine was carrying a quarter of a ton of water in the hull, on the trailer on a slip, nothing came out until I unscrewed the bung!

maybe you did this but I dried the bung with a tissue so I could see even 1 drip running out around the fitting or the bung . it stayed dry . I guess if the bung is leaking its only a few drips a minute so I wouldn't expect to see it running on the slipway . A new O ring certainly wouldn't be a bad idea.

jgrace · 17 July 2006, 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian parkes

maybe you did this but I dried the bung with a tissue so I could see even 1 drip running out around the fitting or the bung . it stayed dry . I guess if the bung is leaking its only a few drips a minute so I wouldn't expect to see it running on the slipway

I agree I only gave it a quick glance. But the boat had shipped (figures adapted for convenience) 240 litres in 48 hours. That's 5 litres an hour, average. When it's coming out again, it's got a reducing head, so it should come out fast first, slower later. On that basis I should have been seeing 6+ litres an hour leaking at the bung when the hull was full of water. That's a litre every 10 minutes, which is quite a visible leak I reckon.

Even given that it was a cursory inspection, I don't think there was that kind of leak. So it could have been a one-way leak. Why not?

As you say, a new o-ring wouldn't be a bad idea. Good luck looking for it, I ended up replacing the entire fitting because I couldn't find an o-ring the right size.

Jim