Auxiliary engine

[Lee argyle]

Originally Posted by Bern Hanreck

Fender , anchors and drogues are all very well for stopping things getting worse ! However they won't get you to a place of safety or home !

I run a auxiliary , same as the main lol

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by Fender

Why would you be drifting at all, u don’t use anchors in Scotland???
If it’s deep you use a drouge to keep the boats bow into the weather, if you haven’t one on board make one!

You seem fixated with a secondary means of propulsion, keep your primary engine in tip top order and you won’t need to dig around a locker for a corroded and neglected aux outboard that probably hasn’t been started since last season, that on a good day might push you back to safety before you run out of fuel, the engine conks out or you die of old age

Oh, BTW yachts don’t use any size of outboard or inboard for that matter as there main means of propulsion , what they do is use the tall pointy up thing , you attach a large flappy thing to it and the wind pushes it along , think there called sails, not sure what Yachts use up north, but that’s what they do down south [emoji38]

In scotland you could be in 100m of water and 10m from the rocks your anchor or drouge wont save you.
Nor will it get you out of the path of the merchant vessel that is about to run you down. It wont get you out of the deserted lunch stop anchorage that is a radio and phone blackspot when you realise your battery is dead.
Not every day you go out in howling conditions, its often perfectly flat when your main perfectly well serviced engine shits itself, you can then get out your equally well serviced aux that you started when you left port and motor slowly home and save the embarrassment of having to call for help and becoming another statistic.
Obviously if it is howling it would be prudent to at least allert the authorities or ask for help sooner rather than later.
Like I've said several times self rescue is far more preferable to calling the cavalry and much more likely if you carry a few hundred quids worth of aux

[Fender]

Originally Posted by Bern Hanreck

Fender , anchors and drogues are all very well for stopping things getting worse ! However they won't get you to a place of safety or home !

Neither will a auxiliary if your any distance from shore with wind and or tide against you as I’ve already pointed out

[Bern Hanreck]

Originally Posted by Lee argyle

I run a auxiliary , same as the main lol

Lee , that's fair enough , but do you have true redundancy regarding both fuel and electrical ?

[Bern Hanreck]

Originally Posted by Fender

Neither will a auxiliary if your any distance from shore with wind and or tide against you as I’ve already pointed out

Again quite true but the whole point of a passage plan is to give you options if things go wrong ! In those circumstances you would probably not choose to fight the elements would you ? An auxillary may give you steerage to a place of safety ? Each to their own though !

[Fender]

Originally Posted by beamishken

In scotland you could be in 100m of water and 10m from the rocks your anchor or drouge wont save you.
Nor will it get you out of the path of the merchant vessel that is about to run you down. It wont get you out of the deserted lunch stop anchorage that is a radio and phone blackspot when you realise your battery is dead.
Not every day you go out in howling conditions, its often perfectly flat when your main perfectly well serviced engine shits itself, you can then get out your equally well serviced aux that you started when you left port and motor slowly home and save the embarrassment of having to call for help and becoming another statistic.
Obviously if it is howling it would be prudent to at least allert the authorities or ask for help sooner rather than later.
Like I've said several times self rescue is far more preferable to calling the cavalry and much more likely if you carry a few hundred quids worth of aux

You live dangerously, boating within 10m of rocks and then parking in front of mechant vessels , no wonder your self conscious for repeatedly calling out the coastguard not forgetting your boat maintenance is that poor the start battery goes flat and you’ve parked with no phone or vhf signal! Remind me not to go boating with you, don’t think my nerves would take it!

You never said , your yachts up north ever use sails?

[Bern Hanreck]

Originally Posted by Fender

You never said , your yachts up north ever use sails?

Can't remember the last time I saw a yacht entering or leaving a marina under sail power

Don't most of them carry an auxillary for exactly that ( or indeed when the going gets tough ? )

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by Fender

You live dangerously, boating within 10m of rocks and then parking in front of mechant vessels , no wonder your self conscious for repeatedly calling out the coastguard not forgetting your boat maintenance is that poor the start battery goes flat and you’ve parked with no phone or vhf signal! Remind me not to go boating with you, don’t think my nerves would take it!

You never said , your yachts up north ever use sails?

You may resort to sarcasm however may i suggest you double your RNLI contributions so those of us who do take all reasonable precautions arent subsidising your personal breakdown service

[Lee argyle]

Originally Posted by Bern Hanreck

Lee , that's fair enough , but do you have true redundancy regarding both fuel and electrical ?

It was a tonge-in-cheek reply hence the lol

However, fuel redundancy is a nonsense, when was the last time a boat left a harbour with contaminated fuel from a fuel berth, I for one have never heard of a incident, I’m sure it probably has happened but people also win the lottery..............rarely. Can you imaging the uproar if lallows in Cowes one weekend sent 100’s of motorboats and yachts out into the Solent only to break down with bad fuel! ( wouldnt the rnli be busy ).
If your running twin tanks and want full protection you would also have to fill the two tanks up at different sources, every time - not going to happen in the real world

Electricary wise, most twin set-ups have separate looms , battery’s , fuses and ecu - as mine has, neither have stopped yet

[Fender]

Originally Posted by Bern Hanreck

Can't remember the last time I saw a yacht entering or leaving a marina under sail power

Don't most of them carry an auxillary for exactly that ( or indeed when the going gets tough ? )

Beamishken was stating that a yachts main engines were of the internal combustion type, however big or small, I beg to differ, the massive white flappy things give it away...............

[Fender]

Originally Posted by beamishken

You may resort to sarcasm however may i suggest you double your RNLI contributions so those of us who do take all reasonable precautions arent subsidising your personal breakdown service

Just because we don’t agree on the merits of a auxillary engine ( you’ve conveniently not reposponded to my point about a aux making any headway against wind or tide ) I’m to double my contributions to the rnli?
You don’t know me have I ever called upon any outside assistance while on the water? Am I a paid up member of sea start? Do I religiously maintain my boat? Have I personally saved lives at sea ( I’ll will awnser that one with a yes ).
Your the one that’s parking near rocks with a flat battery, no form of coms, a large ship about to run you down and I’m the one that needs to increase my financial contributions to the rnli!! Really!

[paintman]

Originally Posted by Fender

Neither will a auxiliary if your any distance from shore with wind and or tide against you as I’ve already pointed out

An entertaining argument between the two of you, but that statement is utter nonsense.

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by Fender

Just because we don’t agree on the merits of a auxillary engine ( you’ve conveniently not reposponded to my point about a aux making any headway against wind or tide )

I didnt reply this unfounded statement as Paintman and Bern Heinrick answered for me



I’m to double my contributions to the rnli?
You don’t know me have I ever called upon any outside assistance while on the water? Am I a paid up member of sea start? Do I religiously maintain my boat? Have I personally saved lives at sea ( I’ll will awnser that one with a yes ).

Even the most meticulously maintained boat can break down and seastart dont operate everywhere around the uk you may need to call on the rnli at some point unless you never venture out of the solent, however the chances of needing their service could be significantly reduced by carrying an aux.


Your the one that’s parking near rocks with a flat battery, no form of coms, a large ship about to run you down and I’m the one that needs to increase my financial contributions to the rnli!! Really!

Clearly you have blanked out of your brain any scenario where an aux would save your skin.
If you ever venture to Scotland you will realise all of the above scenarios are a possibility on a nice summers day

Whatever you say you cannot deny that in many instances an aux will get you out of trouble and if that saves me from becoming a statistic only once then ill keep my aux ready for use when required

[Fender]

Originally Posted by paintman

An entertaining argument between the two of you, but that statement is utter nonsense.

So there’s never been any stream or wind conditions, ANY circumstances that a little auxiliary engine can’t handle and will always push the craft in a desired direction, whatever the sea state, the wind and tide..................... not sure I agree with that nonsense

Enlighten me, so you’ve got a 8m boat, running a main generic engine , say, 250hp - 300hp. What auxiliary would be suitable , storage, weight etc etc - maybe a 6hp? how fast do you think a 6 would move the boat, that is the little engine off to one side of the transom struggling to grip the water in the rolling seas, a few knots? What’s the tide running...........
I’m not say a aux won’t move a boat but if your mid channel it’s not the answer

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Fender

Not sure a auxiliary will be of any use unless your close to shore.

How does it know its far from shore so not propel you?

I don't run one ( most boats in the Solentdon't ),

I've fixed that for you!

Its also never a bad thing to go long distance with a buddy boat or two.

Unless you enjoy the peace, flexibility and freedom of being able to do what you want, when you want. But are engines more likely to die on long distance trips or short ones (my guess is those going long distances do extra checks, prep etc. but those "just popping along the coast" may be more lax. But they are potentially just as vulnerable.

Originally Posted by beamishken

Iirc it is mandatory for a coded boat to carry an alternative means of propulsion,

I don't think there is in the UK. If there is a paddle must tick the box - as some coded boats definitely don't have an aux.

Originally Posted by Fender

You seem fixated with a secondary means of propulsion, keep your primary engine in tip top order and you won’t need to dig around a locker for a corroded and neglected aux outboard that probably hasn’t been started since last season,

surely the two are not mutually exclusive.

Originally Posted by Fender

Neither will a auxiliary if your any distance from shore with wind and or tide against you as I’ve already pointed out

And yet correctly propped 1HP/m of hull will probably get most RIBs upto hull speed. 10 miles off shore that might take 2+ hrs to get home, BUT waiting for help and then getting towed is likely to work out about the same.

Originally Posted by Lee argyle

However, fuel redundancy is a nonsense, when was the last time a boat left a harbour with contaminated fuel from a fuel berth, I for one have never heard of a incident, I’m sure it probably has happened but people also win the lottery

its not that unusual; probably more common with diesel though. Busy fuel suppliers, large users and those who maintain carefully are less likely to be affected. The reason its a misplaced redundancy is as you say realistically you won't be filling both tanks from separate sources so likely contaminate both. The same may apply to aux.

Originally Posted by Fender

you’ve conveniently not reposponded to my point about a aux making any headway against wind or tide

I'll do it then - if you can't make way with a decent, well set up aux in that direction, you might not be getting towed that way either - you'll be going to a convenient, safe harbour not necessarily "home" if its fighting several knots of tide a headwind.

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by Poly

I don't think there is in the UK. If there is a paddle must tick the box - as some coded boats definitely don't have an aux. .

Happy to stand corrected[emoji6]

come to think of it my pals coded angling boat is single engined .

Dont know what made me think it was mandatory maybe different levels of code?

My Delta was previously coded and carried an aux but maybe that was just down to the operator

Or maybe some commercial contracts dictate.I know the guy who does the safety cover on the fourth bridge had to go to twins in order to keep the contract

[Lee argyle]

‘I'll do it then - if you can't make way with a decent, well set up aux in that direction, you might not be getting towed that way either - you'll be going to a convenient, safe harbour not necessarily "home" if its fighting several knots of tide a headwind.’

I’d suggest a Severn class tied to your bow would most likely be able to tow you anywhere - whatever nature was doing! They put out a little more grunt than a asthmatic auxiliary

[paintman]

The issue that Fender seems to be ignoring is that there are any number of displacement hulled boat users that manage to go about their daily business or pleasure without getting washed or blown out to sea. My early boating - early 70's - involved small boats (grp & wood) with small Seagulls with several others of similar age & boat ownership & although we did some daft things we all survived to tell the tales without needing to be rescued

Dependent on hull design & weight it's not unusual for a displacement hull to exceed its theoretical max hull speed & I would be entirely unsurprised if a planing hull didn't do it by a reasonable margin.

There are indeed going to be occasions when people get caught out - no matter how big or fast your boat might be - & can't make their intended destination but that's covered in Poly's last point & proper planning.

As you've asked, my own boat is 17', 135hp V6 & the aux is a 4hp so perhaps a tad under the 1hp/metre, but I had this engine before the boat.
I use the aux a lot for redgilling & flat out it's around 6 knots. Enough to get me out of trouble. The oil incident was around 3 miles against a strong breeze & the tide back through the Manacles into Coverack. Took a bit longer than on the main!

[Fender]

Originally Posted by beamishken

Clearly you have blanked out of your brain any scenario where an aux would save your skin.
If you ever venture to Scotland you will realise all of the above scenarios are a possibility on a nice summers day

Whatever you say you cannot deny that in many instances an aux will get you out of trouble and if that saves me from becoming a statistic only once then ill keep my aux ready for use when required

You need to re-read my posts, I’ve never said a auxiliary won’t move you and yes, in certain circumstances it will get you home or a safe port. If you recall the OP asked about a cross channel crossing with a aux as a backup and I said a well maintained main engine or buddy boat/s is far more useful! (Post no. 12) mid channel that a aux fighting the tide of wind or both! An opinion I 100% stand by!

And funny enough, on a summers day , there’s rocks, ships, pleasure craft , and danger all around the uk inc the south coast , there not unique to Scotland

[Fender]

Originally Posted by paintman

The issue that Fender seems to be ignoring is that there are any number of displacement hulled boat users that manage to go about their daily business or pleasure without getting washed or blown out to sea. My early boating - early 70's - involved small boats (grp & wood) with small Seagulls with several others of similar age & boat ownership & although we did some daft things we all survived to tell the tales without needing to be rescued

Dependent on hull design & weight it's not unusual for a displacement hull to exceed its theoretical max hull speed & I would be entirely unsurprised if a planing hull didn't do it by a reasonable margin.

There are indeed going to be occasions when people get caught out - no matter how big or fast your boat might be - & can't make their intended destination but that's covered in Poly's last point & proper planning.

As you've asked, my own boat is 17', 135hp V6 & the aux is a 4hp so perhaps a tad under the 1hp/metre, but I had this engine before the boat.
I use the aux a lot for redgilling & flat out it's around 6 knots. Enough to get me out of trouble. The oil incident was around 3 miles against a strong breeze & the tide back through the Manacles into Coverack. Took a bit longer than on the main!

Did you read the OP’s first post?
Crossing the channel with a 7.5m 250hp rib and asked what aux to use, nothing to do with displacement craft potentially being blown out to sea