Battery Question

Nasher · 05 June 2004, 19:57

Hi all

Can someone tell me what size battery I should be using to start my Johnson 150VRO V6

Since buying the boat I've been refitting it out. I've not worried up to now that the engine would not turn over well as the cables were very corroded and I watched the guy I brought it off start it up to run it off a mooring to the trailer. When I flushed it, I cursed the guy for warming it up before I arrived, and run it up with two plugs out to warm up then with all six plugs, I hadn't charged the battery so didn't worry.

However today I've put new cables all the way through the boat, cleaned all the contacts and cables from solenoid etc but with no chance of it starting.

The battery it came with is 500CCA which sounds about right but is only 70AH.

Nasher

roofer · 05 June 2004, 20:11

your starter motor could be on its way out .

Nick Hearne · 05 June 2004, 20:56

Hi 500 CCA is the min. recommended size with 99 mins reserve.
Nick

Nasher · 05 June 2004, 21:13

Thanks nick, I've just found an american site where I found the Johnson recomendations for my 150, trouble is I'm more confused than ever.

Minimum recomendation is 500CCA or 105 AH, straight forward enough.

So I've just been and had another look at my battery and its marked with the following.

12V 70AH

CCA: BCI 500 IFC 325 DIN 300
I presume this is 3 different standards for measuring the CCA. I wonder which one Johnson use to get their 500CCA?

I'm loathe to go out and buy a 110AH battery and find it still won't work.

Nasher

Wayne Rogers · 05 June 2004, 21:14

Be careful not to put battery cables on to long unless they are heavy duty,they can over heat under load if the run is to long.

roohairy · 05 June 2004, 21:17

How far is the battery from the engine and what size are the cables, do they get warm when cranking?

Edit: Wayne beat me to it.....

Edit 2: Try connecting the battery close up to the starter with jumpleads if it's a long run of cable and see if it cranks ok.

Nick Hearne · 05 June 2004, 21:28

When chargeing up the battery look to see if the plates in side are bubleing, if you have a bad cell it will not fiz when charged! Or get a Hydrometer to test the specific gravity which will tell you if you have a bad sell! you only kneed one bad sell & the battery then charged will only be giving out say 10 to 11v when you should have 12.5v from a good battery!
nick

Nasher · 05 June 2004, 21:34

Hi all

I've replaced the cables with heavy duty ones that are much thicker than the originals, so I'm presuming they are OK, particularly as they are about twice the size of the cables on my 3.2 litre turbo Diesel Shogun, although much longer (5M).

I tried to get a set of jump leads on the engine but its difficult without shorting the +ve to the block, I was thinking about making up some shorter test cables but will need to go and buy a couple of metres of +ve and -ve on Monday, unless Halfords sell it of course on a Sunday.

Nasher.

Nick Hearne · 05 June 2004, 21:38

Hi invest in a Multimeter when you are in Halfords for under A tenner you will be able to see how many volts you are getting out of the battery!
Nick

Nasher · 05 June 2004, 21:47

Nick

I've had my avo meter on the engine and I'm getting a full 12.5 Volts on cranking, unfortunatly I can't use my Hydrometer as its a sealed for life battery made in black so you can't see the bubbles during charging, preffered the old fashioned ones better.

The other thing I may do is rig up a ammeter to check the current. Mind you for all that trouble I may as well go and buy a 110AH battery as it'll always be useful on the boat anyway.

Nasher.

jwalker · 06 June 2004, 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nasher

I've had my avo meter on the engine and I'm getting a full 12.5 Volts on cranking..
Nasher.

That's too high. If the starter motor is draining the current it should, it will drop the voltage considerably. I'd expect about 10(ish)volts. I used to have a 150vro GT. It always started easily on a 48Ah battery.

Suzuki416 · 06 June 2004, 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nasher

Hi all

However today I've put new cables all the way through the boat, cleaned all the contacts and cables from solenoid etc but with no chance of it starting.

The battery it came with is 500CCA which sounds about right but is only 70AH.

Nasher

Nasher,

Can you please define 'no chance of it starting'.

1. Is it that the starter spins the engine too slowly?

2. if so take all plugs out & see how fast the engine spins then..

Whilst they are out check that you still have a spark by grounding 1 of the plugs to a bolt on the engine?

Recharge the battery before you do this & do not spin the engine for longer than 15 secs approx.

Next thing to try if it spins over at roughly the correct speed!

after test 2 ARE THE PLUGS oiled up?

Are you engaging the COLD START before starting?
You should here a click on the engine when turning it on?

Remember, if you have corrosion in 1 area you may have it elsewhere as well.

Hope this helps.

Pete

Nasher · 06 June 2004, 21:47

Thanks everyone for the input.

Took a more methodical approach today and managed to identify the Battery selector switch as the culprit. By bypassing it full cranking speed was achieved so brought another.

Whilst I was out I called in to halfords and brought a second battery rated at 630CCA yet is still small enough to fit in a small battery box.

Also managed to finish off the Hydraulics so all I need to do now is get the trailer up to scratch which is another story.

So far my cheap but reasonable trailer has cost £260 for bearings, cables, Shoes, and everything inside the hubs that had been stripped out. Plus £180 for new wheels and tyres, both of the originals having so much rust inside the rims that the tyres didn't seal properly.
Now I've found that the drums are shot. The bearings must have nipped up at some stage and spun in the hole causing it to open up. The outer races had then been loctited in to take up the slack, one of them is also cracked. Another £180.
Also Ive removed the bellows on the Drawbar in the hitch and found its rusted and expanded so it won't slide, plus the handbrake energy store is completly solid. Another £180 for a complete assembly. Could have brought a decent trailer cheaper by now.
Its my own fault, for not checking it more carefully and being desperate to collect the boat, although to be fair I'm sure the seller didn't know just how bad it was either.

Boats, who'd have them?

Nasher

Rogue Wave · 07 June 2004, 02:26

I sold Nasher the trailer so it appears I am quite aptly named.

I might have a coupling call me if you want I personally wouldn't put the brakes back on

failing that try these people

http://www.trailerpartswarehouse.co....couplings.html

reagards Stuart

Nasher · 07 June 2004, 08:39

Stuart, Hi.

Didn’t mention your name on purpose because I honestly don’t believe you knew how bad it really was. No hard feelings or anything like that.

As for the brakes, I’d rather be legal.
I’m sure the law requires brakes on a trailer over a certain weight and I also don’t want to invalidate my insurance.
My Shogun like most 4X4’s is only rated up to 750Kgs for an un-braked trailer, although we all know it will handle much more.

If for some reason I go into the back of another vehicle on the road, or have any other accident, without the brakes fitted to the trailer my insurance company have every right not to pay out. It might sound soft but that’s the way I look at it.

I also wouldn’t want to be on the receiving end of somebody going into the back of me because their car brakes couldn’t cope with running an illegal trailer.

As a relevant aside to the above, I’ve noticed that the brakes on my new 3.2TD are no where near as good as the brakes on my old 2.8TD, the Mitsubishi garage has admitted a few owners who have swapped in old shape shoguns for new shape ones have said the same thing.

We must get round to arranging a beer one evening with a few of the local guys.

Nasher

myndit · 10 June 2004, 18:10

Nasher

when do want that beer?

I'm in Horndean

Doug

DJL · 10 June 2004, 18:24

Nasher,

The reason your Shogun is only rated up to 750Kgs for an un-braked trailer is because that’s the legal limit and they can't specify anything higher.

You need to make sure your brakes work. It’s a legal requirement that brakes on a braked trailer are in good working order and work efficiently. So not only will your insurance not pay out, you'll get done by the police too.

roohairy · 10 June 2004, 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nasher

Thanks everyone for the input.

Took a more methodical approach today and managed to identify the Battery selector switch as the culprit.

Doh! Have the same problem on my other boat and never thought of it..... Only works on battery one, have to swap the leads over to use the other!

Bilge Rat · 11 June 2004, 08:01

Nasher..... Seems your finding out the hard way that there's no such thing as a cheap boat

I've now worked out that the amount i've spent on mine over the last year and a half including actually buying the boat in the first place i could have bought brand new..... hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it

Nasher · 11 June 2004, 20:43

I'm still nowhere near the price of a new boat as I do everything myself, and manufacture parts where I can.
Mind you, plan is to swap the old 150HP Johnson in for a new 2 stroke in a couple of years, then I will be spending serious money.

The V6 does sound great though! especially run up on flushing with the hose and muffs attached as there is no water to quiet the exhaust.

As for the trailer, I'm coming to terms with having a decent trailer with ALL new parts for the price of a good second hand one.

Can reccomend Hayling trailers, and trailertek at Micheldever stn, the range of prices varies so much between shops it has been worth shopping around and not even buying all the parts in one place.

Nasher