Commercial PPR course/test

Ruari 29 · 27 January 2012, 19:21

Hi guys, just been on the RYA website trying to find out the latest.
Im planning to commercially endorse my certs in March? Will I then have to do this test within a certain timescale?
Thanks Ruari

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S using Rib.net

C2 RIBS · 27 January 2012, 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruari 29

Hi guys, just been on the RYA website trying to find out the latest.
Im planning to commercially endorse my certs in March? Will I then have to do this test within a certain timescale?
Thanks Ruari

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S using Rib.net

The exam will go live on 2nd April 2012 but will NOT become compulsory until 1st June 2012 so you can sit the exam in this time or just renew as per the present process. It appears you can commercially endorse your qualifications using the present system in March and there is no requirement to complete the PPR

Ruari 29 · 27 January 2012, 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by C2 RIBS

The exam will go live on 2nd April 2012 but will NOT become compulsory until 1st June 2012 so you can sit the exam in this time or just renew as per the present process. It appears you can commercially endorse your qualifications using the present system in March and there is no requirement to complete the PPR

Thanks C2, here is a real stupid question, im guessing there is no practical exam for a commercial endorsement its just the case of sending away your certs and form.
Question- I have pb lvl 2 and will be sitting my advanced in march. I have my ML5 and sea survival & vhf.
Should I commercially endorse my level 2 now then when ive done advanced commercially endorse that?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S using Rib.net

C2 RIBS · 27 January 2012, 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruari 29

Thanks C2, here is a real stupid question, im guessing there is no practical exam for a commercial endorsement its just the case of sending away your certs and form.
Question- I have pb lvl 2 and will be sitting my advanced in march. I have my ML5 and sea survival & vhf.
Should I commercially endorse my level 2 now then when ive done advanced commercially endorse that?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S using Rib.net

Ok I am not a training school but have instructors ticket. You can commercially endorse a PB 2 basically with paper work, The Advanced powerboat certificate requires an examination to commercial endorse( think thats the correct wording).
The advanced powerboat ticket takes night navigation on board in the sylabus. To have that commercially endorsed you must be examined over boat handling, night navigation and also a written exam during the examination period. Training school experts will be along shortly to give you the full run down

Ruari 29 · 27 January 2012, 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by C2 RIBS

Ok I am not a training school but have instructors ticket. You can commercially endorse a PB 2 basically with paper work, The Advanced powerboat certificate requires an examination to commercial endorse( think thats the correct wording).
The advanced powerboat ticket takes night navigation on board in the sylabus. To have that commercially endorsed you must be examined over boat handling, night navigation and also a written exam during the examination period. Training school experts will be along shortly to give you the full run down

Yeah im guessing the advanced certificate of competence is the exam which comes at the end of the course is the only practical exam? Then its just send the form & certs away?
What you reckon should i commercially endorse my level 2, my only worry is that I have to send away my ML5 will i get this back to commercially endorse my advanced a month or so later?

Thanks for the Help Ian
Here is my new boat www.castlecharter.co.uk

C2 RIBS · 27 January 2012, 20:28

If doing advanced why endorse PB2 ?

Ruari 29 · 27 January 2012, 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by C2 RIBS

If doing advanced why endorse PB2 ?

Yeah I know... I take over a charter boat in March, It does 2 mile wildlife trips and close to shore work, just thought if there was any delay with advanced or RYA returning my documents i could still operate the short trips?

I think i better just organise my Advanced

SPR · 27 January 2012, 21:10

Hi

the Advance Powerboat is in two parts to make it commercial.

first you need to past the course!
next is an independent examiner will put you through another test then issue you another bit of paper.

After you done this you need to send to RYA with your paper work and endorse.

If you looking for good sea school, I would high recommend Greg @ SeaForce who posts on here.

He can arrange for both parts to happen, back to back if needed.

regards

Scott

Ruari 29 · 27 January 2012, 22:22

Thanks SPR, youve confirmed my suspicions.
A friend who did the MCA route was confusing me as he though there was 2 exams.
Cheers guys.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S using Rib.net

Poly · 27 January 2012, 22:47

Ruari, I may be remembering this wrong, but if the boat is coded for longer trips commercial pb2 will not be enough even if you are only going less than 3miles to sea.

Doug Stormforce · 27 January 2012, 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruari 29

Yeah im guessing the advanced certificate of competence is the exam which comes at the end of the course is the only practical exam? Then its just send the form & certs away?
What you reckon should i commercially endorse my level 2, my only worry is that I have to send away my ML5 will i get this back to commercially endorse my advanced a month or so later?

Once you have a commercial endorsement with the RYA you will not need to re-send your Sea Survival and medical (as long as the medical has not expired) to later commercially endorse a new CoC.

Ruari 29 · 28 January 2012, 19:14

Thanks for the advice guys, going to get my advanced sorted out next month.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S using Rib.net

SeaSkills · 29 January 2012, 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruari 29

Yeah im guessing the advanced certificate of competence is the exam which comes at the end of the course is the only practical exam? Then its just send the form & certs away?
What you reckon should i commercially endorse my level 2, my only worry is that I have to send away my ML5 will i get this back to commercially endorse my advanced a month or so later?

Thanks for the Help Ian
Here is my new boat www.castlecharter.co.uk

Hi Ruari,

I've sent you some information about the Advanced powerboat exam by email - should answer most of your questions.

All the best
Ian

chris.moody · 29 January 2012, 11:00

Last year I got my commercially endorsed advanced powerboat cert of competence so can offer my experiences of the process.

First I did the advanced powerboat rya course. This is a 2 day course, with lots of night time navigation practice on day 1. At the end of the course you get an advanced powerboat photo ID certificate (assuming you have completed the syllabus).

Then you have to take the advanced powerboat cert of competence exam. I did the exam in December, mainly because it gets dark early so the course didn't run on too late. The examiner arrived at 1:00pm, and we finished about 10:00pm. We did the theory test and practical test planning during the first 3 hours, then we went out on the water once it was dark and did the close quarters boat handling. After that we did the night navigation practical where you have to navigate to points the examiner had given you at the very start of the exam.

The exam is very thorough, the theory test covered everything; weather, irpcs, chart symbols, flags, lights, day shapes, sounds, boat checks, safety briefs, etc. The practical side was equally thorough, you need to be very confident that you can find lit, unlit, and even objects you cannot see (I had to find a lump in the seabed) in the dark. I got the impression not finding any of your given objects was an instant fail.

I gave the examiner all my paperwork at the end of the exam, and he arranged for the commercial endorsement. It took about 5 weeks to get processed by the RYA.

I would make sure you are very confident in your boat handling, night nav, and theory before booking the exam.

Any questions just ask.

Chris

Ruari 29 · 29 January 2012, 12:52

Thanks chris, Ive never had the need to be out at night so that part will be interesting and im 90% there with my navigation. I will swat up before I go as I dont want to be unprepared.

Thanks for the advice, Ruari

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S using Rib.net

chris.moody · 29 January 2012, 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruari 29

Thanks chris, Ive never had the need to be out at night so that part will be interesting and im 90% there with my navigation. I will swat up before I go as I dont want to be unprepared.

Thanks for the advice, Ruari

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S using Rib.net

Finding unlit poles & buoys in the dark is very different to navigating in daylight. Everything looks completely different, and planing speeds seem very quick after dark. Also it's very difficult to see the big waves so you have to be extra vigilant. At least at this time of year getting the night hours practice in is easier.

Chris

hobbit555 · 29 January 2012, 21:18

In the apb course and assessment why is there so much emphasis on finding unmarked posts etc, something you just wouldn't do in real life. Surely more emphasis should be on safe pilotage and avoiding obstacles?

I have read the course notes and nowhere does it say anything about unmarked posts. I think it an excuse for the examiners poor imagination in creating a suitable pilotage exercise.

If your navigation needs to be so pinpoint accurate (like I am currently doing,laying a cable to a wind farm,) then specialist DGPS positioning systems are being used.

Steve Barrowman · 30 January 2012, 19:32

The current notes for examiners, page 1, The Exam, section 3 "The candidate should be asked to plan and undertake a night passage using lit and unlit marks. In some circumstances where the candidate is very familiar with the area, mostly unlit marks may be used" Partial quotation.
Finding an unlit mark, especially in waters the candidate is unfamiliar with, is a means to an end. It is a fairly unequivocal way, of the examiner assessing that the candidate is competent in both their understanding and practical application of pilotage techniques, remember that pilotage is in confined waters, and by using all the expected techniques and instruments, the candidate, hopefully, is well able to demonstrate their rock dodging abilities. Don't forget lookout and safe speed, and all the other bits too.
It only forms a small part of the exam, but some centres teaching the course before the exam, for those who want it, may tend to overegg the pudding, but hopefully, the examiner is able to make an overview of all the candidates abilities, not just the ability to find unlit marks.
Hope this helps.

Paul Glatzel · 30 January 2012, 19:33

Hobbitt555

Hi, you are absolutely right that finding unlit marks does seems a rather bizarre and unrealistic thing to concentrate on during a night exercise of a Advanced Exam or an Advanced Course. However the mistake is not so much to do this as to fail to explain properly to the student/those on the course why they are being asked to find such a mark (or perhaps a sounding or even a notional point on a chart).

The key is to explain that the reason for doing this is that the Examiner wants them to demonstrate a wide range of pilotage techniques to find the mark. If an examiner has chosen his/her point wisely then the ‘mark’ can be located by a variety of techniques such as depth contours, transits, back bearings, clearing lines and so on. The Examiner wants (expects) the student to use a combination of these techniques (typically 3+) to position themselves on this point. If they are able to do this then in all probability they have a good understanding of these techniques and will be able to apply them in somewhat more realistic situations.

You mention that perhaps the Examiner is not being particularly innovative in constructing a suitable pilotage exercise. Whilst this could be the case it needs to be borne in mind that not all locations lend themselves to great pilotage exercises. For example your own base of Weymouth has pretty limited pilotage potential (in contrast to a location like the Solent) although Portland Harbour and the development of that area has made it far better. By tasking a student to locate a couple of unlit marks/soundings in Weymouth bay the Examiner can get a very good understanding of their ability to understand and use their knowledge.

Hopefully on Advanced Courses Instructors are getting the point across too about why they are tasking students to find unlit marks – it is a means to an end and not the end in itself.

Hope that gives a different perspective on it – don’t hesitate to raise any further questions.

Regards, Paul

Paul Glatzel · 30 January 2012, 19:39

Quote:

the Advance Powerboat is in two parts to make it commercial.

first you need to past the course!
next is an independent examiner will put you through another test then issue you another bit of paper.

After you done this you need to send to RYA with your paper work and endorse.

Just to clarify but you do not need to undertake the Advanced Powerboat course as a precursor to taking the Advanced Exam (Certificate of Competence). If you wish you can go straight in for the exam although most potential exam students will choose the Course then exam route as it is a great way to work towards the exam.

Regards, Paul