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Old 28 September 2005, 19:16   #21
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To quote codprawn (ish) as i dont have a add quote option.

"I have just completed my level 2 course and will soon be taking my advanced."

Please correct me if i am wrong, but as far i was aware you should have at least 2 seasons experience (or a load of experience on the water) between level 2 and advanced. i dont think a few trips out in a little rib could count as either, so is the RYA partly to blame? some schools doing favours, signing people off for more than they are realy capable of or even letting them on the course. Is this instilling a sense of " I have my advanced certificate which is the best around, I also have my own boat and maintain it myself (cause its cheaper than paying a profesional) and why should i need the help of a voulenteer (who may or may not be risking their own life) !!!

Im sure this will start more arguing but eh....
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Old 28 September 2005, 22:26   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rama
To quote codprawn (ish) as i dont have a add quote option.

"I have just completed my level 2 course and will soon be taking my advanced."

Please correct me if i am wrong, but as far i was aware you should have at least 2 seasons experience (or a load of experience on the water) between level 2 and advanced. i dont think a few trips out in a little rib could count as either, so is the RYA partly to blame? some schools doing favours, signing people off for more than they are realy capable of or even letting them on the course. Is this instilling a sense of " I have my advanced certificate which is the best around, I also have my own boat and maintain it myself (cause its cheaper than paying a profesional) and why should i need the help of a voulenteer (who may or may not be risking their own life) !!!

Im sure this will start more arguing but eh....
How do you know what experience I have??? I have been around boats all my life - brought up by the Red Sea and did my first scuba diving when I was 8!!! My father has always had boats - from little speed boats up to an 85' ex patrol boat he restored himself.

The level 2 is really basic stuff - it makes me cringe to think of people like Steve Curtis having to do it!!!!

As to a few trips out in a little RIB they are likely to teach you FAR more than you would learn in a bigger boat - you REALLY have to watch the weather like a hawk and you are so close to the water you have a much better idea of what is going on!!!
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Old 29 September 2005, 02:50   #23
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Originally Posted by codprawn
The level 2 is really basic stuff - it makes me cringe to think of people like Steve Curtis having to do it!!!!
I was reliably informed last year that Steve Curtis is really hopeless at low speed manoevuring.
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Old 29 September 2005, 03:16   #24
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And another strange thing...
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Originally Posted by codprawn
I have been around boats all my life
You obviously haven't been mooring those boats to anything though, have you? Otherwise you would know your knots...
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One thing I REALLY need to practice though - knots - a bloody disaster!!!
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Old 29 September 2005, 03:51   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard B
I was reliably informed last year that Steve Curtis is really hopeless at low speed manoevuring.
I always maintain that any fool can drive fast and make it look good, its the slow stuff that is the hardest to master.

Sorry Steve

This is true of boats, cars and bikes.

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Old 29 September 2005, 03:58   #26
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This thread seems to have addressed the perpetual dilemma of experience vs training. Here's my take...

........Research has also shown that for the training experience to be effective it should be delivered over an extended period - there's a direct correlation between length of training and retention of salient facts;.......
Ideally training and experience should be seen as complementary. An idealised model goes something like this:-

(1) Unconscious incompetence......
(2) Conscious incompetence.....
(3) Conscious competence.....
(4) Unconscious Competence........
(5) Unconscious incompetence......
Nate, This model fails to take into account natural ability, some people regardless of how much training you give them will never have the ability to perform certain tasks and equally some people will take to a new task like a duck to water.
People with a natural ability for a particular task find themselves in a state of ‘Unconscious Competence’ with minimal or even no training.

I only mention this because this model has always annoyed me and I think it is misleading.
Des
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Old 29 September 2005, 04:07   #27
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....People with a natural ability for a particular task find themselves in a state of ‘Unconscious Competence’ with minimal or even no training.

I only mention this because this model has always annoyed me and I think it is misleading.
Des
What about us, "naturally Incomptent" then? Huh! Talk about discrimination...
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Old 29 September 2005, 04:23   #28
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What about us, "naturally Incomptent" then? Huh! Talk about discrimination...
The great thing about Incompetents is that if you can temper it with a high level of ignorance you are oblivious to it Des
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Old 29 September 2005, 04:39   #29
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The great thing about Incompetents is that if you can temper it with a high level of ignorance you are oblivious to it Des
So now we have another category to add..

Unconsciously, naturally incompetent and ignorant.


…and I think we could also add “arrogant”? The sort of people who can’t be taught… ‘cause we... err.. I mean they.... already know-it-all….
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Old 29 September 2005, 04:44   #30
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So now we have another category to add..

Unconsciously, naturally incompetent and ignorant.


…and I think we could also add “arrogant”? The sort of people who can’t be taught… ‘cause we... err.. I mean they.... already know-it-all….
isn’t arrogances conceited ignorance Des
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