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Old 29 April 2008, 09:10   #11
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One interesting development, in France at least is E85. It is being sold for 80c/litre, instead of 1.40 for petrol. There are many people using 50% E85 and 50% petrol in their cars with no modifications, absolutely fine. Why not boats?
Why not?

Because the demand can never be met by growing crops - they are needed for FOOD. Haven't you seen all the problems being caused around the world by crops being used for fuel? Poor people are starving because they can't afford to eat and massive areas of jungle are being cleared to grow these crops - the orangutan will soon be extinct because of this!!!
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Old 29 April 2008, 09:13   #12
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One interesting development, in France at least is E85. It is being sold for 80c/litre, instead of 1.40 for petrol. There are many people using 50% E85 and 50% petrol in their cars with no modifications, absolutely fine. Why not boats?


At 60p a litre, can you pour it over ice and add coke to it?

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Old 29 April 2008, 09:18   #13
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...and all the while, BP and Shell are reporting record profits. They are "blaming" these increased profits on the increased cost of crude oil. Am I missing something, or could they not just reduce the retail price if their profits are racing as they are?
The oil majors ARE making big profits, but it's not in retail or at the pumps. They have stakes in many large oil fields which they have bought/invested in over the last twenty+ years. There were years (when crude was at $10 a barrel) where they made very little from these fields. Now it's payback time.

They also make alot of money on refining margins, i.e. turning a barrel of crude into 30% petrol, 30% diesel, 10% gasoline, 10% LPG, 10% fuel oil, 10% naphtha, etc....Over the last few years, these product prices have been very high in relation to crude prices. So the refineries are at full blast (5 years ago they ran at about 75%), and they are coining it in.

The market decides the price. No reason why BP should sell it's petrol in the UK cheaper than the Americans would buy it. So they don't.

Then, as Codprawn says, the rest is tax. And because the tax is a %, it has increased even more quickly. The government is enjoying a huge tax windfall thanks to the increased oil prices.

When UK/US complains to OPEC about high oil prices, OPEC quite rightly turns round and says, well if you think it's so high, take some tax off it.

I think that when petrol starts to hit 1.50 a litre and people really start getting pissed off, the government will be forced to lower tax rates. There is at least that 'safety net' against even higher prices for the time being.
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Old 29 April 2008, 09:21   #14
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Why not?

Because the demand can never be met by growing crops - they are needed for FOOD. Haven't you seen all the problems being caused around the world by crops being used for fuel? Poor people are starving because they can't afford to eat and massive areas of jungle are being cleared to grow these crops - the orangutan will soon be extinct because of this!!!
SO does that mean that when you got out on your 225hp boat, burning gallons of petrol, doing your bit to push petrol prices higher, thus encouraging bio-alternatives to compete, thus removing food producing fields from the market, thus starving poor third worlders........that you feel guilty?
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Old 29 April 2008, 09:27   #15
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SO does that mean that when you got out on your 225hp boat, burning gallons of petrol, doing your bit to push petrol prices higher, thus encouraging bio-alternatives to compete, thus removing food producing fields from the market, thus starving poor third worlders........that you feel guilty?
No because I use no gas at home - I have a woodburner. My car runs on used cooking oil so again no impact. As to "encouraging" - people wouldn't even consider bio fuels in the UK if they could buy petrol for 42p per litre!!!

And No I am not some loony mentalist - I do it cos it's cheaper.............
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Old 29 April 2008, 09:28   #16
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I think that when petrol starts to hit 1.50 a litre and people really start getting pissed off, the government will be forced to lower tax rates. There is at least that 'safety net' against even higher prices for the time being.
Lower taxes...you think, the Government would fight you all the way look at the fiasco over the 10p rate only due to huge pressure by the press and not the public was their really any climbdown from the PM...only hope maybe the haulage firms kicking up a stink
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Old 29 April 2008, 11:37   #17
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The market decides the price.
GREED Decides the Price.
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Old 29 April 2008, 12:04   #18
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Lower taxes...you think, the Government would fight you all the way look at the fiasco over the 10p rate only due to huge pressure by the press and not the public was their really any climbdown from the PM...only hope maybe the haulage firms kicking up a stink
Indeed this is true, profiteering from the price increase is against the rules except for when it is a government cashing in! Only this morning did I hear mention of inestigation of fuel companies being investigated.... by a government department.

However if we do find ourselves paying extortion + tax then the average joe would find they will have to adapt far quicker than any government. How long for a tax reform to come into effect, if at all?

I for one wont last long at current usage paying 2 + per litre and neither will many others, and the tax generated will be massive, but what use will cash be in a recession anyway :-)
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Old 29 April 2008, 12:21   #19
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Lower taxes...you think, the Government would fight you all the way look at the fiasco over the 10p rate only due to huge pressure by the press and not the public was their really any climbdown from the PM...only hope maybe the haulage firms kicking up a stink
I think that as fuel prices increase and the economy gradually grinds to a painful halt, the government (whose mantra seems to be growth above all else (oh and low inflation)) will have no choice but to cut a portion of the fuel taxes. Or at the very least not impose any more......!

It seems the English (myself included) are a bit too soft. The French are a shining example of how the people have far more say in how the country is run. If they don't like something, they simply all walk out en masse until it is sorted out. (cf. French fisherman pay something like 35 centimes/litre for their diesel).
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Old 29 April 2008, 12:23   #20
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.only hope maybe the haulage firms kicking up a stink
News said on the radio earlier that they are already demonstrating outside Parliament.
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