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Old 28 March 2011, 17:23   #31
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Originally Posted by dubrus View Post
unfortunately one dead according to this-

http://www.channelonline.tv/channelo....asp?ID=493614

cheers
I'm just out of the shot of the ALB, quite a sight watching a Tamar steaming through the pierheads at WOT
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Old 28 March 2011, 17:36   #32
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36.5 knots in 20m viz is taking the p!ss no matter how good your radar is
This seems to be quite preposterous .. is this common practice for these ferries in those conditions ?
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Old 28 March 2011, 17:40   #33
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Just ask any long distance lorry driver about pressures applied to get the job done quicker.


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No doubt ,commercial pressures or otherwise it will be all down the very basics of seamanship ,
safe speed and failure to keep a proper look out ?

having said that at this stage we dont know the full story and reasons or actions from either party .

We get it all the time, can you do this please, if you say no the gaffer will say I'll just pop outside so he doesn't see you do it.
Alot of jobs that you can't get a permit for easily get done on nightshift, under the cover of darkness. The darkness makes it safe!
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Old 28 March 2011, 17:49   #34
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as said we don't know the facts but its not the first accident with these hi speed vessels. Its not just that they do the same speed whatever the viz and rely on radar (hence why I keep going on about radar reflectors) but also their wash which has caused fatalities in the past at different locations. A triumph of commercial gain over sea safety.
The irpcs says we should take into account visibility, density of traffic, manoueverability, background lights at night, weather/wind/waves,and draught of the vessel. How that is achieved at 30 odd knots in basically nil viz, or indeed by hi speed ferries careering down Southampton water in the dark I cannot see, and its only a matter of time there. But we dont know the facts of this one.
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Old 28 March 2011, 18:46   #35
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Sadly it's a case of 'not biting the hand that feeds' for most officers and crews involved in the ferry trade.
i woz ownly obayin awders

dats wot thay sed att de noorenberg wor tryals.

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Old 29 March 2011, 04:14   #36
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36.5 knots in 20m viz is taking the p!ss no matter how good your radar is
In all fairness, in 20m viz it probably doesn't matter what speed the Vitesse was doing. The bridge is probably more than 20m aft of the bow, the Captain won't have even been able to see the front of his own boat, let alone another vessel some metres forward of it and some 10 metres below.
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Old 29 March 2011, 04:16   #37
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In all fairness, in 20m viz it probably doesn't matter what speed the Vitesse was doing. The bridge is probably more than 20m aft of the bow, the Captain won't have even been able to see the front of his own boat, let alone another vessel some metres forward of it and some 10 metres below.
Also we don't know what the visibility was south of the accident, nor at the time just prior.
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Old 29 March 2011, 04:39   #38
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reading through these posts a thought occurred to me, it doesn't matter what speed he was doing or what the viz was like, he has no excuse for running down a fishing boat, i come from a fishing family here in the solent, the ferries get as close as they can to you, they do it on purpose, almost like a game
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Old 29 March 2011, 05:08   #39
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In all fairness, in 20m viz it probably doesn't matter what speed the Vitesse was doing. The bridge is probably more than 20m aft of the bow, the Captain won't have even been able to see the front of his own boat, let alone another vessel some metres forward of it and some 10 metres below.

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Part B - Steering and sailing
Section I (for any visibility)
4. Application
The rules apply in any visibility (e.g. in sight or in restricted visibility).
5. Look-out
Every vessel must at all times keep a proper look-out by sight (day shape or lights by eyes or visual aids), hearing (sound signal or Marine VHF radio) and all available means (e.g. Radar, ARPA, AIS, GMDSS...) in order to make a full assessment of the situation and risk of collision.
6. Safe speed
Any vessel must proceed at a safe speed at which she can to take action to avoid collision and be able to stop within a distance suitable to the prevailing conditions. These conditions include the visibility; traffic density; her manoeuvrability (e.g. stopping distance and turning ability); background lights on shore, dazzle and backscatter from her own lights; the state of the wind, sea, current and nearly hazards; and draft in relation to the available water.
When radar is in use also consider: limitations of the equipment; range scale in use; sea-state, weather and other interference; possible weak targets; the number of targets and their movement; that the use of radar may help to judge the visibility.[4]
7. Risk of Collision
Vessels must use all available means to determine the risk of a collision, including the use of radar (if available) to get early warning of the risk of collision by radar plotting or equivalent systematic observation of detected objects. (e.g. ARPA, AIS).
If the distance of any vessel is reducing and her compass bearing is not changing much or it is a large vessel or towing vessel at close distance, or if there is any doubt, then a risk of collision shall be deemed to exist.
seems obvious to me?
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Old 29 March 2011, 05:12   #40
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reading through these posts a thought occurred to me, it doesn't matter what speed he was doing or what the viz was like, he has no excuse for running down a fishing boat, i come from a fishing family here in the solent, the ferries get as close as they can to you, they do it on purpose, almost like a game

Yeah Ok i'l bite.....

So what your saying is the ferries deliberately leave the channel/shipping lanes risking potential grounding to 'play' with the fisherman?.....or is it maybe a case of the fishermen laying pots and trawling in the shipping lanes because they know theres is a better chance of a good catch?...hmmm interesting one.

Simon
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