Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 11 August 2006, 14:43   #11
RIBnet admin team
 
Poly's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: imposter
Make: FunYak
Length: 3m +
Engine: 2 stroke YAM 20 HP
MMSI: 235089819
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,114
Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn
Of course with hydrogen there would be no CO2 so you could drive your 4x4 and be greener than anyone.
ehhh... and how do you make hydrogen? By using energy which has usually been produced by burning a fossil fuel. hydrogen fuel is NOT carbon neutral.
__________________
Poly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11 August 2006, 17:07   #12
GED
Member
 
GED's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: CONWY/CORFU
Boat name: The Full Morty II
Make: Air Craft/Shakespere
Length: 8m +
Engine: Etec 300hp/Etec150hp
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 603
saving money on fuel

just run yer car on red! out of all the all of the thousands of people you know who drive, how many have been done with red in their tank!
__________________

__________________
GED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 August 2006, 17:13   #13
RIBnet admin team
 
Poly's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: imposter
Make: FunYak
Length: 3m +
Engine: 2 stroke YAM 20 HP
MMSI: 235089819
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,114
Quote:
Originally Posted by GED
just run yer car on red! out of all the all of the thousands of people you know who drive, how many have been done with red in their tank!
Well out of the thousands of people I know I can say at least 20 or 30 have had their tanks "dipped". And that is without actually going and asking them. Although I have never had mine done. None of them have been done for driving with red in their tank - because they don't take the chance - and pay the duty!
__________________
Poly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11 August 2006, 17:25   #14
GED
Member
 
GED's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: CONWY/CORFU
Boat name: The Full Morty II
Make: Air Craft/Shakespere
Length: 8m +
Engine: Etec 300hp/Etec150hp
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polwart
Well out of the thousands of people I know I can say at least 20 or 30 have had their tanks "dipped". And that is without actually going and asking them. Although I have never had mine done. None of them have been done for driving with red in their tank - because they don't take the chance - and pay the duty!

Having lived in liverpool for 30 years I know of no one who has been done...
.may be its a city thing.
__________________
GED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 August 2006, 17:52   #15
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: swansea
Boat name: Too Blue
Make: BLANK
Length: 8m +
Engine: Suzuki DT225
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polwart
ehhh... and how do you make hydrogen? By using energy which has usually been produced by burning a fossil fuel. hydrogen fuel is NOT carbon neutral.
Hydrogen can be produced by many methods - often as a byproduct but the 2 most promising are the new method of converting waste products such as sewage using microbes and even more important - using surplus nightime electricity that just goes to waste to electrolyse seawater instead of powering millions of streetlights and floodlit buildings.
__________________
codprawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 August 2006, 18:37   #16
RIBnet admin team
 
Poly's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: imposter
Make: FunYak
Length: 3m +
Engine: 2 stroke YAM 20 HP
MMSI: 235089819
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,114
Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn
Hydrogen can be produced by many methods - often as a byproduct but the 2 most promising are the new method of converting waste products such as sewage using microbes
as far as I am aware there are no microbes capable of producing hydrogen at the rate that would be necessary to replace petrol. There are certainly some anaerobic microbes which contain enzymes that break down e.g. glucose to acetate plus 4 H2 - but then you get left with shitloads of acetate waste for not a lot of gas. You could use other bacteria to break down the acetate but then you get CO2 as well.

Microbes are also bloody temperamental (they are my dayjob) so one day they are fermenting away and the next they stop. On top of that you need to keep the process sterile (or you will get competing organisms in there which mean you don't get H2 (or not as much) or get eg. H2S in their too.) - thats not hugely practical if you are processing waste. (most approaches to sterilisation are either hugely eco-unfriendly or energy internsive). Now microbes will produce gas at atmospheric pressure - it takes a reasonable amount of energy to presurise and/or liquify that gas so it is suitable for storage and transportation. And this all assumes you have pure H2 in the product (which I don't think is possible today) - if you have to purify / separate the product then you are looking at more energy required.

Personally I think it is viable on a local scale - but its not how BP or anyone else would do it for vehicle fuel.

Quote:
and even more important - using surplus nightime electricity that just goes to waste to electrolyse seawater instead of powering millions of streetlights and floodlit buildings.
that electricity is still largely produced by - burning gas or coal - so its not carbon neutral. Biodiesel and bioethanol are already with us - and are effectivel much more carbon neutral, and existing engines would run them with little or no modifications, the delivery mechanisms already exist etc. Call my cynical - but the reason they have not been more widely adopted/produced is that the countries which currently control the oil are not exactly the ideal countries for growing high yield crops.


PS sorry for hi-jacking the thread.
__________________
Poly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11 August 2006, 18:59   #17
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: swansea
Boat name: Too Blue
Make: BLANK
Length: 8m +
Engine: Suzuki DT225
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polwart

that electricity is still largely produced by - burning gas or coal - so its not carbon neutral. Biodiesel and bioethanol are already with us - and are effectivel much more carbon neutral, and existing engines would run them with little or no modifications, the delivery mechanisms already exist etc. Call my cynical - but the reason they have not been more widely adopted/produced is that the countries which currently control the oil are not exactly the ideal countries for growing high yield crops.


PS sorry for hi-jacking the thread.
Not carbon neutral maybe but as you know large scale power stations can't just be turned off and on - the boilers need to be kept up to pressure. The nightime electric just goes to waste as there is no way of storing it - except for rare cases like Dinorwic. Much better to use the waste electric to make hydrogen.

of course start using more Nuclear power and you CAN make hydrogen totally Carbon Neutral.
__________________
codprawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 August 2006, 20:24   #18
RIBnet admin team
 
Nos4r2's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: The wilds of Wiltshire
Boat name: WhiteNoise/Dominator
Make: Ballistic 7.8/SR5.4
Length: 7m +
Engine: Opti 225/Yam 85
MMSI: 235090687/235055163
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,645
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by GED
Having lived in liverpool for 30 years I know of no one who has been done...
.may be its a city thing.
Nah, I passed customs and excise dipping someone's tank on an old Citroen BX in Bristol a couple of weeks ago.
__________________
Need spares,consoles,consumables,hire,training or even a new boat?

Please click HERE and HERE and support our Trade Members.

Join up as a Trade member or Supporter HERE
Nos4r2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 August 2006, 22:16   #19
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: swansea
Boat name: Too Blue
Make: BLANK
Length: 8m +
Engine: Suzuki DT225
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nos4r2
Nah, I passed customs and excise dipping someone's tank on an old Citroen BX in Bristol a couple of weeks ago.
i think that sums it up - an old car. I bet they wouldn't have bothered a new Audi or Jag diesel - they prob wouldn't even know it was a diesel....
__________________
codprawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 August 2006, 05:20   #20
RIBnet admin team
 
Nos4r2's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: The wilds of Wiltshire
Boat name: WhiteNoise/Dominator
Make: Ballistic 7.8/SR5.4
Length: 7m +
Engine: Opti 225/Yam 85
MMSI: 235090687/235055163
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,645
RIBase
I bet they would notice if it was running on red though-I've known quite a few people running on red before and the extra black smoke makes it a bit obvious.
__________________
Need spares,consoles,consumables,hire,training or even a new boat?

Please click HERE and HERE and support our Trade Members.

Join up as a Trade member or Supporter HERE
Nos4r2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:30.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.