LPG converstion

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

I bet they would notice if it was running on red though-I've known quite a few people running on red before and the extra black smoke makes it a bit obvious.

A very common misconception - why should red diesel make a car smoke? It is EXACTLY the same as normal diesel with a minute quantity of dye in it. There may have been a time when red was different but these days it has to comply with the low sulphur nonsense etc that normal diesel has to comply with.

[Simon B]

Originally Posted by Nauti Buoy

Hi

I used to have a Landcrusier Amazon 5.7V8, yes I know bit of a different beast to that of a Focus, but the Gas conversion was a pain in the arse, used far more gas than the normal petrol fuel economy plus if you put your foot down hard ie overtaking it could not physically pump enough gas in to the engine and switched back to petrol automatically, then had to stop, turn off the car, reset switch to gas, re-start engine and carry on. Plus Gas is getting more expensive to buy now.

That doesnt sound at all right, vapourizer to small at a guess, I ran a 4.6 V8 and never had starvation, economy should be around 10% less, a whole lot less and I would suspect dodgy set up.

[eupa]

May not be a big issue for you but you cannot use the channel tunnel with a LPG vehicle, but your ARE exempt from the London Congestion Charge!

a bit wrong.....

The so called safty committe of that white elephant have accepted that an LPG vehicle is not a risk... c.f caravans which are permitted with butane cyclinders!!!!!!!!!!!!!!- the problem is that an agreement to allow LPG vehicles was reached last November.. but has yet to be implementated. Transmark/ Eurotunnel reaks of incomptence and only by the grace of the banks are they surviving -and its just a matter of time bedore the whole thing comes to a grinding halt. What should have been a major success story of the 20/21st centuries, is in fact a disaster- overpriced, ineffecient, and iin 10 year will have reached its shelf-life - unless an enormeous amount of doll is spent.

As regards the congestion charge- check your facts- only certain vehicles are exempt.. and the list is available from uncle Ken"s website....There is no blanket exemption for every LPG equipped vehicle

Jonathan

[eupa]

Now fellas get the facts....

I run my 3.5 Sorento on LPG. My company has used a KIA sedona 2.47 v6 as a fast van since Oct. 2005.- since new

The Sedona has now over a 100.000 miles on the clock.. YES 100.000 miles o the clock - all on LPG.

1. Dont skimp on the conversion. The only good one is the PRINS 4 system VSI but is about 2200.00 quid. There is a OBC, that is added that imitates the original OBC.
2. I have just taken the heads off to inpsect any unusual wear.Valve seats
are as new,compressions are normal- the engine is remarkably "clean"
3. Oil consumption is at 1 liter for 7000 miles and is slightly up .
4. Fuel consumption of gas vs petrol is +10%, power drop is some 8%- but if you are pumping out over 140 hp you dont see the difference.
5. Cost is recovered in about 22000 miles. ( in the uk) - in Belgium 15000 miles and you 've done. LPG in Belgium is under 30p a liter
6.Spark plugs wear out 15% quicker with LPG - even with the "life" plugs

It is a similar story with the Sorento- although this is for my own use and is primarily for the boat.- it is nearly up to the 40000 mile mark, and again no
probelms. Both conversions were done by Dual Fuel system in Woking Surrey.
Ask for Barry.The Sorento will tow my boat GTW of 2800 kgs at 80mph under gas without the slightest problems. Dual Fuel do a lot of Range Rovers v8's.
Some Ford engines are not recommended to be converted.The Sorento has a "spare wheel" tank of 90 liters taking 74 liters of gas. The Sedona has an apparant 200 liter tank .All the seats have been taken out and payload is some 900 kgs legal.

Why did I go LPG- because I got fed up with noisy, smelly, expensive diesels- even the latest CRDI - HDI are not as quite and smooth as a good old V8- and i query the socalled" economy" of diesel??????

I am also trying to get my 250 yams 2t-HPDI converted.

jonathan

[eupa]

referring to my previous post about"blanket exemption" for the congestion charge:

goto
http://www.cclondon.com/downloads/Drivers.pdfto :

-its not as straight forwrd as it seems. Did you expect it to be???

jonathan

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by codprawn

A very common misconception - why should red diesel make a car smoke? It is EXACTLY the same as normal diesel with a minute quantity of dye in it. There may have been a time when red was different but these days it has to comply with the low sulphur nonsense etc that normal diesel has to comply with.

It's odd that the ones I've seen DO smoke more though and it's not that they are worn out-usually its a very distinguishable fine cloud of black smoke on hard acceleration (not the usual crap from a worn out engine).

There is apparently something else in there other than the dye too-it's actually quite easy to remove the dye so there had to be another way of detecting its use.

I do realise this doesn't look too founded in fact but I have heard of people getting caught for it after the dye was removed too.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

It's odd that the ones I've seen DO smoke more though and it's not that they are worn out-usually its a very distinguishable fine cloud of black smoke on hard acceleration (not the usual crap from a worn out engine).

There is apparently something else in there other than the dye too-it's actually quite easy to remove the dye so there had to be another way of detecting its use.

I do realise this doesn't look too founded in fact but I have heard of people getting caught for it after the dye was removed too.

Various chemical markers are added - not just a visable red dye. There is no reason why the vehicle should smoke any more.

[GED]

what about heating oil

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by GED

what about heating oil

Also has chemical markers and a yellow dye - big shame really - it's almost the same as jet fuel and apparently engines run very well on it......

[Kernow Buoy]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

There is apparently something else in there other than the dye too-it's actually quite easy to remove the dye so there had to be another way of detecting its use.

That's true, as Codders said there is also a chemical trace in the fuel. A police traffic car will probably carry a clear plastic bottle with a hose attached for a visual dipping of the tank, the RFTU (road fuel testing unit) will dip but then do a roadside test for the chemical trace. If the Police find Red diesel they'll call for customs and excise and impound your vehicle until they arrive, then your day is going to get much worse!

[eupa]

.... I thought we were talking about LPG ?? not using red diesel??

I would like SOMEBODY to tell me if I can convert my 2t HPDI to LPG- as having failed to get any response to a previous query about injector timing - I will now have to run tests en situ............ even the fountain of all knowledge,- technical,political,envireomental, - the one and only codfish - did not offer any advice....

Jonathan

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by eupa

.... I thought we were talking about LPG ?? not using red diesel??

I would like SOMEBODY to tell me if I can convert my 2t HPDI to LPG- as having failed to get any response to a previous query about injector timing - I will now have to run tests en situ............ even the fountain of all knowledge,- technical,political,envireomental, - the one and only codfish - did not offer any advice....

Jonathan

In theory you could convert any ic engine. Never having seen the innards of a Yam 250 I won't comment. I still think you should try kero

[eupa]

thanks codders- but the financial incentive using a kero mixture is not all that great,,, whilst LPG could offer a considerable savings,
Eurosuper now at a quid a liter and looking to stay that way for some time- and bearing in mind that mere mortals like myself cannot easily claw the duty back- makes even starting the engines a costly experience.

Jonathan

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by eupa

thanks codders- but the financial incentive using a kero mixture is not all that great,,, whilst LPG could offer a considerable savings,
Eurosuper now at a quid a liter and looking to stay that way for some time- and bearing in mind that mere mortals like myself cannot easily claw the duty back- makes even starting the engines a costly experience.

Jonathan

Surely heating oil is cheaper than petrol??? There is a hell of a difference here.

[eupa]

Surely heating oil is cheaper than petrol??? There is a hell of a difference here.

But then you get into that nasty bind of using non excise-fuel, and I believe that if you mix kero with petrol - theoretically you are still liable for the total duty.....Anyway as posted previousely, put your money where your mouth is ( excuse the crude english) - and try it on your engine first... then tell me how you get on.......

jonathan

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by eupa

Surely heating oil is cheaper than petrol??? There is a hell of a difference here.

But then you get into that nasty bind of using non excise-fuel, and I believe that if you mix kero with petrol - theoretically you are still liable for the total duty.....Anyway as posted previousely, put your money where your mouth is ( excuse the crude english) - and try it on your engine first... then tell me how you get on.......

jonathan

If it wasn't for the fact I will be running commercially and claiming the duty back I really would. No more than 50% mind. I don't think it would be a problem legally in the UK as you can use red diesel ok.

[Nos4r2]

so.... how would you be proposing to get the 2 stroke oil round the engine if you were using LPG?

[Poly]

Originally Posted by codprawn

If it wasn't for the fact I will be running commercially and claiming the duty back I really would. No more than 50% mind. I don't think it would be a problem legally in the UK as you can use red diesel ok.

think you will find heating oil has no duty added but red diesel has approx 6p per L so you would upset the tax man.

Have the revenue agreed to giving you a rebait on ALL your boat fuel then?

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Polwart

think you will find heating oil has no duty added but red diesel has approx 6p per L so you would upset the tax man.

Have the revenue agreed to giving you a rebait on ALL your boat fuel then?

Only on commercial use obviously. Got a few jobs to do on the boat and then will get her coded. Think I have some work lined up already for the winter - so won't be just a summer thing.

[eupa]

so.... how would you be proposing to get the 2 stroke oil round the engine if you were using LPG?

these are yams HPDI 2t - not carbs- the oil is injected to the crank direct and not premixed- i,e the "petrol" goes on top of the piston and the oil to the crank ( i think that's what happens- ) i,e it then behaves as a' 4t' except you only have two cycles per bang-- somebody correct me if I am wrong...
Basically how i see it is that LPG already in a gaseous state just replaces vaporized petrol..

jonathan