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Old 24 November 2012, 03:27   #21
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David.

Apply for a "small equipment grant" from Sport England. Simple application process and they will give you up to 10k to spend on equipment. The good thing about this money is that you don't have to match fund like a lot if other funds. You can buy 2nd hand safety boats otherwise all other purchases have to be new.
12 months ago my local scout group got the full 10k which bought them (all new) - 2x rigiflex 360's (Jaffas) with Yamaha 15 outboards and trailers with all the safety kit they need inc flares etc. I think it cost them about 1k which basically covered the trailers and safety kit. They got a lot for their 1k!

You can apply for the same grant every 2 years (maybe every year but I can't remember) which has allowed this group to buy 2 Laser Bahia, 3 Laser Vago and 4 Picos all with trolleys covers etc and multi stacking road trailers over the last 5 years in addition to the Jaffas.

If you get sponsorship from companies etc you can also apply for 'sports match' funding from Sport England which doubles your money.

Plenty of money out there to pay for things without using much if your own money if you fill in the forms and say the right things.

PM me if you want more info.

Graham

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Old 29 November 2012, 12:42   #22
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Thanks for the encouragement Graham. I'll go for getting a grant I think. I'll probably ask for one of the new Rigiflex 4700 Newmatics as it is plated for 10, but not too large. It looks like I can ask for 20k in Wales, but I am not sure that it is an advantage to ask for all of it. Given that the list price for the Rigiflex is 5k and I need an engine and trailer, I expect it will be over 10k. (If anyone reading this wants to do me a quote for a package, that would be great!) Are there any significant alternatives that I should be considering?

In the mean time I have my eye on an old Narwal (!) Rib to get experience and logged hours.

Thanks again

David
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Old 30 November 2012, 06:02   #23
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If you end up "sans grant" I have a part share in an old 1972 Johnson 20 if you can find a cheap hull for it.

Does need a service, but goes & pumps water.

Longhsaft, works with tiller or remotes. Has a starter, bur we removed it for hernia reducing reasons! (Used to have to carry it 200yds to the boat) Will supply with or refit it if you want electric start.

Looking for Somewhere in the order of 200.
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Old 30 November 2012, 12:20   #24
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Thank you for the offer of the cheap engine. I will certainly keep it in mind.

The grant application is likely to take quite some time.

All the best

David
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Old 30 November 2012, 13:15   #25
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If you are going for a rigiflex don't go for the 4.7m. It's not set up as a safety boat, go for the newmatic 400 as we have done.

Used it in the Jubilee pageant back in June and it handled the (lumpy) conditions rather well and is also fantastic upriver where we do most of our work.

Let me know if you need any help/advice about the Rigiflexes. We've got 3.6 and 4m newmatics. BHG marine are also fantastic for advice/support.

Another ribnetter in this photo too!
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Old 30 November 2012, 14:30   #26
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Originally Posted by dpround View Post
Given that the list price for the Rigiflex is 5k and I need an engine and trailer, I expect it will be over 10k. (If anyone reading this wants to do me a quote for a package, that would be great!) Are there any significant alternatives that I should be considering?
There are a few alternatives you should be considering (not necessarily any better [I haven't tested them all and its subjective anyway], and may or may not be cheaper, but worth looking at)

- Funyak 390 (Tiller, Bench console or jockey console versions available). Goes fine with a 20HP but a 25 or 30 HP might be better if you are looking at fully loading it. A complete package with all your accessories (anchor, ropes, flares, VHF etc) should be possible within 10k. Morton boats is the English reseller; Atlantic Focus in Inverness is the Scottish one.

- Funyak 460 - if you want bigger. Not "RIB styled" but seem to be quite popular as a safety boat.

- Mac Boats (UK distributors are Marine Revolution in Dundee). Really nice plastic boats, but more expensive than the Funyaks. Their attack 360 would be a good small rescue boat.

- Steadyboat - Sweedish manufacturer of rib like boats: seen them and look OK.

- Local rescue group use one of these for flood rescue type work: The Zegul zegul.se - zegul Resources and Information. This website is for sale! which disassembles for easy transport (fits on roofrack)

- Pioner in Norway - particular the Pioner multi. Pretty classic plastic rescue boat - good for casualty recovery with fold down front. Will be pricey though.

There was someone started doing something similar based in Wales IIRC, but I have forgotten the name. They had a review in Boat Mart a couple of years ago. I never saw any more so they may have died.
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Old 30 November 2012, 14:36   #27
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Look at Whaly boats as well.
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Old 30 November 2012, 14:58   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigi36 View Post
Look at Whaly boats as well.
I have seen these close up and they do see well made. A lot of the rowing clubs seem to got them as more durable than a rib and safer than the "tin fishes" they use.

Whaly Boats
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Old 30 November 2012, 15:46   #29
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A couple of Sea Scout groups around here have them.

They are good in the fact that you feel 'on' the water rather than 'in' the water like you do in a Rigiflex.

Rigiflexes have very low freeboard but are very spacious and incredibly stable.
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Old 30 November 2012, 17:19   #30
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There was someone started doing something similar based in Wales IIRC, but I have forgotten the name.
Quote:
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Look at Whaly boats as well.
Ah thats the one!
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Old 03 December 2012, 04:55   #31
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Quote:
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If you are going for a rigiflex don't go for the 4.7m. It's not set up as a safety boat, go for the newmatic 400 as we have done.
I am surprised by this comment. The newmatic version of the 4700 looks pretty much as suitable as any of the newmatic range, just bigger? All the sizes are also available in Aquapeche and Cap variants, neither of which would be as suitable as the newmatic variant. Perhaps the newmatic version of the 4700 was not available when you were shopping? It is relatively new.

All the best

David
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Old 03 December 2012, 04:56   #32
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Thanks for the encouragement Graham. I'll go for getting a grant I think. I'll probably ask for one of the new Rigiflex 4700 Newmatics as it is plated for 10, but not too large. It looks like I can ask for 20k in Wales, but I am not sure that it is an advantage to ask for all of it.
David
I have now found a good reason for not asking for too much. We have to provide at least 20% from other sources

David
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Old 03 December 2012, 07:24   #33
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Thanks for the list of similar boats, it seems Rigiflex don't have the entire segment all to themselves after all. I like the idea of the Pioner multi - recovering tired swimmers would be very easy and it ticks some boxes for disabled access, not that we have any disabled scouts. I will get quotes. It will take me a while to work through them all.

The Whaly boats look interesting, cheap and with very good rated number of passengers despite the smaller size of their largest offering.

Thanks again

David
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Old 03 December 2012, 08:29   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpround View Post
I am surprised by this comment. The newmatic version of the 4700 looks pretty much as suitable as any of the newmatic range, just bigger? All the sizes are also available in Aquapeche and Cap variants, neither of which would be as suitable as the newmatic variant. Perhaps the newmatic version of the 4700 was not available when you were shopping? It is relatively new.

All the best

David
Hi David

I wasn't aware you could get the 4700 in the Newmatic range. As far as I can see it's just available as a Cap model (which is obviously not set up as a safety boat).

I can't see it listed on the webstie anywhere
Rigiflex - Rigiflex Range

Where did you find out about it?

EDIT: Fair enough, just found this:
http://www.kleinboote.at/Boot-Rigifl...Kat-C-D-orange

One ugly beast though haha.

I think when choosing a rescue boat it's important to consider where you could lie a casualty. There is lots of room in the newmatic 3.6,3.7 and 4.0m but other boats (the whaly for instance) don't seem to have a lot of internal space.
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Old 03 December 2012, 09:38   #35
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A Pioneer multi is considerably more expensive and heavy. I personally think a Rigiflex 360 is the best allrounder - light enough to be hand launched by a handful of people yet big and stable enough for most safety boat applications. Plus they come on the market used quite often for not much money.
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Old 03 December 2012, 10:08   #36
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+1 to that Tim
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Old 03 December 2012, 10:13   #37
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A Pioneer multi is considerably more expensive and heavy. I personally think a Rigiflex 360 is the best allrounder - light enough to be hand launched by a handful of people yet big and stable enough for most safety boat applications. Plus they come on the market used quite often for not much money.
The current plan is to keep the boat on the farm and tow it to whichever launch site, so ability hand launch would not be much of an asset. It would be nice to get it under 750kg all up as that would allow an unbraked trailer. Brakes and salt do not mix IMHO! I am not sure if the grant would allow us to buy a second hand boat, though I will be asking. (I can't help noticing that 15k gets a LOT of rib second hand on this site!) I feel we need a boat large enough to take a reasonable number of scouts without exceeding the plated limit as I would like to use the boat for other things as well as rescue duties. Most of the larger offerings will take 8 - 10 people, which is a patrol and a leader with a bit of margin. This is of course all pie in the sky if we can't sort out a grant.

All the best

David
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Old 03 December 2012, 14:45   #38
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I have now found a good reason for not asking for too much. We have to provide at least 20% from other sources
Not sure how much experience you have of these things but worth checking:

(1) Can any all of it be "in kind"; e.g. if there is work needing done as part of a total project can you attribute a value to the effort; or if an engine is needed and you are using one you already own etc; training courses for all the "crew" etc.
(2) Can the grant cover the first years running costs too? e.g. fuel, servicing, insurance etc - all stuff you were going to have to pay anyway - but can it reach 20% of the total?
(3) Any of your leaders or parents work for benevolent organisations who would promote their name on the side. Its the sort of think Mrs Poly's firm would sponsor if she was one of the leaders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rigi36 View Post
I think when choosing a rescue boat it's important to consider where you could lie a casualty. There is lots of room in the newmatic 3.6,3.7 and 4.0m but other boats (the whaly for instance) don't seem to have a lot of internal space.
Most of those are available in a tiller steer only version with no benches which would provide ample room. The fun yak console can also be placed at the rear possibly leaving enough space for a casualty infront. I also think that on the whaly and funyak the 'side bench' arrangement could work for a lying casualty in reasonable conditions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpround View Post
I am not sure if the grant would allow us to buy a second hand boat, though I will be asking. (I can't help noticing that 15k gets a LOT of rib second hand on this site!) I feel we need a boat large enough to take a reasonable number of scouts without exceeding the plated limit as I would like to use the boat for other things as well as rescue duties.
Think carefully before going 2nd hand. The life of tubes is probably <20 yrs unless they are commercial spec. The hull, trailer etc will all need some TLC. Old boats often need rewired etc. BUT probably my biggest worry about a club/scout group who are struggling to scrape together 15k buying a big old boat is the engine costs. Big boat = big engine. Old boat = old engine. Old engine = higher risk of problems and higher repair bills. Big engine = bigger fuel costs. A 150 HP 2 stroke will burn 60-80 of fuel/oil an hour unless used very carefully [which if you are not paying for the fuel they never are].

Quote:
Most of the larger offerings will take 8 - 10 people, which is a patrol and a leader with a bit of margin. This is of course all pie in the sky if we can't sort out a grant.
Depending where you are thinking of using it would two smaller boats be a better plan? You get the advantage of running one when you can (saving money) and the flexibility of two boats when its useful (e.g. a breakdown, towing fleets of dinghies, transporting people long distances etc). For 15k I think you could get 2 roughly 4m whaly/funyak types with tiller steering etc. If they are desparate you might even manage 2 for 10k (especially if you can find a suitable double trailer).

If you plan to use it in rough water one big boat might be more sensible.
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Old 10 December 2012, 13:39   #39
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I'm involved in the Sea Scouts here in margate.

We've just bought a "FunYak" for the troop, good service and product seams good quality. New shiny Merc 20 just arrived so no sea time to report on yet. We've gone for the console option with all remotes & electrics on the engine as we already have a few small pull start / tiller engines and want the kids to experience gear lever and wheel.

Fun Yak Dinghies and rowing boats

Paid for (boat and engine, although bought 6 months appart) through combination of fund raising, and small grants. The 500 grants soon add up (try rotary, masons, local supermarket, church... etc. etc.) , and are almost always easier for apply for than the 5000 ones.
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