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Old 13 March 2009, 21:08   #1
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Rules on lifejacket wearing

I have just read an interesting thread on the ybw forum. The basics of it was a planned offshore cruise to an island for lunch was changed to a bit of an amble along the coast because one of the passengers refused to wear a life-jacket. What would you do in these circumstances? Personally I would find an alternate use for the paddles that all good ribs carry by lashing them together to form a makeshift plank and let the prat walk home.
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Old 13 March 2009, 21:15   #2
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Got a link to the thread?
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Old 14 March 2009, 03:47   #3
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Got a link to the thread?
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showflat.p...0/fpart/1/vc/1

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Old 14 March 2009, 04:04   #4
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Interesting! I would not have gone up Southampton Water, would not have left the dock side if someone would not wear a lifejacket, but then again my public liabilty insurance insists lifejackets are worn by everyone whilst on the boat but if I am right the MCA rules state that I must carry enough lifejackets for all on board and 10% more in numbers in case of one failure(think these are the rules) does not state have to be worn
If on a private boat there are no rules just recommendations to my knowledge. They were lucky to go out at all due to one fool especially as viz was down and fog horns being used by other craft
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Old 14 March 2009, 05:29   #5
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Given that the guy who started the YBW thread's profile says he owns one of these:-


then I wouldn't have gone anywhere either unless the guy who wouldn't wear a lifejacket was confined to the cabin. It's unlikely you'd survive hitting the water from a flybridge at 20 knots+.
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Old 14 March 2009, 06:13   #6
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It's unlikely you'd survive hitting the water from a flybridge at 20 knots+.
I'm not sure I agree - but if it were the case are you not then just a dead guy with a life jacket on?

However with poor vis, in the evening in march - I would expect everyone was inside? And that makes a discussion here where most people have open boats a little different. That is not to say that I believe he was wrong to insist on life jackets.

I don't understand the purpose of the YBW thread? Was he the skipper?... its written in the 3rd person as though he was just another "passenger". Actually, IMHO, his error was not how he acted the other night, but how he acted on all the previous trips which has now created an expectation that this person could "opt out" of wearing a l/j if they wished. Its much harder to insist someone wears a l/j on your boat today when last week, and every other week it was OK.
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Old 14 March 2009, 06:28   #7
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I'm not sure I agree - but if it were the case are you not then just a dead guy with a life jacket on?

However with poor vis, in the evening in march - I would expect everyone was inside? And that makes a discussion here where most people have open boats a little different. That is not to say that I believe he was wrong to insist on life jackets.

I don't understand the purpose of the YBW thread? Was he the skipper?... its written in the 3rd person as though he was just another "passenger". Actually, IMHO, his error was not how he acted the other night, but how he acted on all the previous trips which has now created an expectation that this person could "opt out" of wearing a l/j if they wished. Its much harder to insist someone wears a l/j on your boat today when last week, and every other week it was OK.
Sorry-me being unclear again-should have said It's unlikely you'd survive hitting the water from a flybridge at 20 knots+ without a lifejacket on. Dazed, disorientated , cold and without a lifejacket isn't a good recipe for survival.
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Old 14 March 2009, 08:40   #8
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Sorry I forgot to add the link - thanks Chris.

There were comments about the skipper being part liable if anything was to happen to the passenger who refused to wear a pfd. Does anyone know if this is true? I know that in an open boat I would not consider taking someone on board who was so intransigent if, for no other reason, what else would they be a pain about?
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Old 14 March 2009, 10:35   #9
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Sorry-me being unclear again-should have said It's unlikely you'd survive hitting the water from a flybridge at 20 knots+ without a lifejacket on. Dazed, disorientated , cold and without a lifejacket isn't a good recipe for survival.
I think thats a bit over the top; whilst its not an ideal situation to be in I don't think you'd die!

I personally think its all down to the situation you find your self in. I often go out on the water without a life jacket on. I have a dinghy I use to get around the harbour; I rarely wear one in this. Likewise the majority of people I know rarely wear life jackets on yachts unless the weather gets nasty. I know of a motor cruiser charter company that operate on the South Coast that doesn't make its punters wear life jackets whilst the boat is moving. I can see the argument for a "zero tolerance" on life jackets and I totally understand you have a responsibility to be responsible, but at the same time I think there is room for flexibility, in the same way as drink-boating. All depends on the circumstances.
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Old 14 March 2009, 11:18   #10
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The wearing of a lifejacket should be left up to the individual. But the skipper should ensure a suitable lifejacket is provided for each person.

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Old 14 March 2009, 12:07   #11
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Intersting question - however if its my boat , its my rules about everything. - end of discussion. Today for example before moving I made it quit clear to 2 mates from work ( not a huge amount of boating exp that what I say they do & not to feel 'abused' if I get a bit direct - its for their & my & the boats safety .

However I dont always insist on life jackets - I do a mental risk assesment around speed / conditions & the persons experiance on MY boat each time.

If in my view I deem them competent enough to hold on/ experienced to be reading the situation/sea , & we are going slow, & its calm I dont force them - but if its in any way rough the boat doesn't move until everyone is secure and has been told that they are auto jackets , but have a manual pull if needed for any reason etc etc.
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Old 14 March 2009, 12:15   #12
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The wearing of a lifejacket should be left up to the individual. But the skipper should ensure a suitable lifejacket is provided for each person.

Andy
I don't agree Andy. The safety of all on board is the responsibility of the skipper. If I'm the skipper all wear lifejackets period. No LJ no go!! I think this is a no-brainer in the boats we drive!
Who in their right mind would drive a car without a seatbelt? Same thing here who would go to sea without wearing a LJ?
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Old 14 March 2009, 14:59   #13
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The safety of all on board is the responsibility of the skipper.
Yep, strongly agree
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Old 15 March 2009, 14:15   #14
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I've always thought it was quite simple. If the skipper is happy with conditions, then it's personal choice re lifejackets. However, if the skipper says LJs on please, then that's what you do. If you're a guest on someone's boat and you don't listen to the skipper, then maybe you don't get asked back.

Sounds like this group went on regiular trips, so if they're all good mates it's a bit tricky to not invite someone next time though.
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Old 16 March 2009, 11:15   #15
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What is the problem with wearing a life jacket, These days they are very unrestrictive and after awhile you forget you have one on. There is no set speed, weather condition or sea state that can not catch somebody out regardless of there experiance. I just can,t see the problem with putting on a life jacket to go out to sea, as allready said you do it in a car.
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Old 16 March 2009, 12:38   #16
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You wear a life-jacket in your car?
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Old 16 March 2009, 12:45   #17
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You wear a life-jacket in your car?
Have you seen the auto inflating ones for bikes - linked to a kill cord. Now we can have whole thread about wearing a kill cord on a bike ! GREAT !

The lifejacket in my car is called an airbag ( but I dont wear it as such - only after crashing )
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Old 17 March 2009, 02:48   #18
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There is no disadvantage to wearing a life jacket and everything to gain its just a macho thing that i am so good i don,t need one.
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Old 17 March 2009, 04:36   #19
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I always wear a lifejacket just to set an example really - have never fallen off a boat in 19 years, but not worth the risk!
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Old 17 March 2009, 05:31   #20
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I've always thought it was quite simple. If the skipper is happy with conditions, then it's personal choice re lifejackets. However, if the skipper says LJs on please, then that's what you do. If you're a guest on someone's boat and you don't listen to the skipper, then maybe you don't get asked back.

Sounds like this group went on regiular trips, so if they're all good mates it's a bit tricky to not invite someone next time though.
I agree with you Mike. It's a bit like house rules and should be set in stone to anyone who wants to come on board.
Although if it was good mates of mine I know I wouldn't mince my words. After all, if they are good mates they would respect what I was asking up get a friendly smack in the chops
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