It was going so well...then bang!

[fastasfox]

For the past 37 years my Hull and outboard have been together, but that all ended coming back from Jura at the Easdale Rib Rendezvous at the weekend.
We all set off for the 75 mile round trip to Crackaig at an agreed cruising speed of 22 knots and the sea was flat calm so it was a very enjoyable trip.
On the way back we all got a bit split up, as we had to wait for a seaplane to do it's thing and to add insult to injury the mist rolled in and the main group vanished, leaving four of us at the rear. we had it drilled into us to remain in group's of at least three for our own safety....the problem for me at least is that the group were no longer going at 22 knots, they were going around 27-28 knots. I pushed the throttle up to 6,500 rpm and this put me at around 27 knots. I wasn't comfortable pushing up near max revs (7,000 rpm) as I was aware my outboard was a 37 year old two stroke.
After 10 mins at this speed I got on the radio and made the group aware of my concerns and they said they would ease off a bit. It's fair to say that most of us in this group were inexperienced (me including) and it's the furthest most of us had gone out to sea.....turns out none of us at the rear wanted to be left behind and they were keen to catch the main group up that we're just coming into view.
I noticed that my speed dropped off by 1 knot but I put this down to currents. My speed recovered but then dropped off again by 2-3 knots......I immediately eased up but too late...it went bang. Actually it sounded like a bag of spanners being dropped down stairs. The engine did carry on running but sounded awful.
A quick call for help and Tony from Sea Safari came to our aid...towing us back with the rest of the group to Easdale at a brisk 20 knots. I stayed on my boat to steer and my wife got on the Celtic Voyager.
It's fair to say that I'm gutted. I put a lot of effort into getting to Easdale and had just rewired my boat with new switch panel and I rebuilt my starter motor with new brush kit....it had never turned over so good. It also meant I would miss out on the Sunday run. (turns out the fog stopped play on Sunday for everyone)
Some of you could say "what did I expect from an old Mariner 75hp 2 stroke" , but I had gone through the motor...it had good compression and I had a camera down the cylinders and they were pretty good for it's age with only some light scoring and there are plenty of these units still being used.
I haven't had chance to identify the full problem with my outboard but I suspect that at the very least the rings have gone in one of the cylinders. The Auto oil injection was working as I topped it up before the return leg.
If I could get the parts I could rebuild my outboard, but in short you can't get the cylinder liners or pistons for the old clamshell mariner's, so unless someone has some old new stock kicking about, then I couldn't rebuild anyway...but at this age the cost of parts the re-bore skim and everything else would make it uneconomical to repair.
Genuine rib history coming to an end....sad day.

So what to replace it with?

The best thing would be to purchase a brand new 90hp outboard four stroke but they are around £10-£12k and I have two problems with that...1. If I spent that kind of cash I would want to be out on the water with it weekly..and I don't live on the coast...2. I don't have 12k burning a hole in my back pocket.
So used it is then....and that my friend's is a minefield.
Ideally I wouldn't want to spend more than 4k and that this day and age tends to buy you an Early to mid 2000's and that's a lot of cash for a a twenty year old outboard.
The second obstacle is what size to go for? I run a 75hp on my 5m Tornado but I have seen folk running much larger outboards on 5 meter ribs and I have seen as small as 40hp.
The next matter to deal with is do I stick with two stroke...I l do have a soft spot for them (plenty of optimax about) or do I go to 4 stroke and better fuel economy and generally much quieter. If I do go four stroke then I would want injection not carburetor and that in itself creates an added complication...more to go wrong....as the owner of a much newer outboard will agree with as he too had to be towed back to Easdale.
So you all will have different opinions based on your experience, what are your thoughts please.


Hp size...Stroke....make.....reliability?

cheers all hope your season is off to a better start than mine.

[Easedalenovice]

That is not good very sorry to hear that. That Sea Plane landing was interesting. It was me that put out the call.

My view is generally keep with a 2 stroke. They are way more simple and easier to ‘care for’ and work on.

As you know I just bought a 2006 Yamaha 75 and paid about £2,500 including quite a posh gauge. Yes when I tested it it went into limp mode but hopefully I have fixed that. More testing soon. I did get a good price on a Suzuki 70 new 4 stroke from Morgan marine at about £7,800 but it was a lot heavier than the 2 stroke 75.

On the fuel consumption it surprised me that on the rally a couple of the 70 hp 4 stroke people I spoke to used a lot more fuel than my 60 hp mariner 2 stroke.

On the Jura trip I used 45 ltrs for the 75 mile trip. I know my rib is only 4.5 m long but I was pleased with that consumption.

So in short I would go for a 70 - 115 2 stroke and spend under £3,000

You should be able to get a few hundred for yours for spares.

Facebook market place is a good place to look

[tinker]

Oh dear, what a shame after all that effort. Be interesting to see it with the head off, see what damage. May be oil starvation from one of lub injectors.

On your engine, I'm looking for a lot smaller one than yours but I'm noticing that purchasing a complete package, boat and engine, maybe a better way to go (separate and sell boat trailer after )

I did see this yesterday, gone now but looked a decent set up.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204770222...mis&media=COPY

[Easedalenovice]

Here is what might be a good one

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...4623766783133/

[Easedalenovice]

Also worth checking out Cambridge outboards. I have had 2 outboards from them and they are good to deal with

[Orwell boy]

Sorry couldnt help you more saturday ,was a nightmare trying to keep a tab on those in front and those behind but something worked as i managed to turn up and stay till Tony bought his big one !
Have a look at this list ,these people are gents and wont sell any cr.p
couple with warranty may be worth a look ,on my doorstep if you need help !
https://www.seamarknunn.com/downloads/usedob/used.pdf

[spartacus]

Sorry to hear that Fastafox. On the positive, better you were cruising in company than the engine go pop on a lone trip.

I know what you mean about investing in a new outboard and £12k burning a hole in your back pocket. It's a case of striking reliability with cost and ease of servicing. If you want to get onto fresh-water lakes, then 4-stroke will be way forward.

I suppose the way I would look at it is, what's the maximum engine hp/weight the Tornado will run with, then an idea of budget and work back from that.

If money was no object, you'd go for main manufacturer 4-stroke. Yamaha F70A is probably lightest in its class at 119kg. You can't even hear the thing running. I've seen a few second hand, but buyer beware in terms of scams.

The trouble with 2-strokes is finding one. Mid-sized outboards tend to stay with their boats, and if they are available - are either run ragged or absolute minters. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground.

Personally for a 4-stroke, I'd avoid Ebay and buy from a main dealer. You can always get it pallatised and shipped plus a video of it running.

[paintman]

Depending on age, would it be worth looking for another one the same as yours as you now have a large quantity of free spare parts?

[fastasfox]

Originally Posted by Easedalenovice

That is not good very sorry to hear that. That Sea Plane landing was interesting. It was me that put out the call.

My view is generally keep with a 2 stroke. They are way more simple and easier to ‘care for’ and work on.

As you know I just bought a 2006 Yamaha 75 and paid about £2,500 including quite a posh gauge. Yes when I tested it it went into limp mode but hopefully I have fixed that. More testing soon. I did get a good price on a Suzuki 70 new 4 stroke from Morgan marine at about £7,800 but it was a lot heavier than the 2 stroke 75.

On the fuel consumption it surprised me that on the rally a couple of the 70 hp 4 stroke people I spoke to used a lot more fuel than my 60 hp mariner 2 stroke.

On the Jura trip I used 45 ltrs for the 75 mile trip. I know my rib is only 4.5 m long but I was pleased with that consumption.

So in short I would go for a 70 - 115 2 stroke and spend under £3,000

You should be able to get a few hundred for yours for spares.

Facebook market place is a good place to look

I agree with you about the two stroke outboards, they are so simple to work on and you can't beat a two stroker for power delivery.....and the smell....takes me back to The grand prix motorbikes back in the 500cc era.
The problem I have is that most two stroke outboards are getting long in the tooth and parts can be tricky to get hold of.
The two stroke injection systems are a constant source of concern because if it gives up so does the engine and I don't fancy pre mixing.
Also two stroke engines have to work so much harder.

The problem with four stroke outboards is they are a pig to work on...and more maintenance hungry and less powerful and much heavier.
My first choice would be the Yamaha 80 four-stroke injection....but they fetch a premium. I wouldn't rule out a carb four-stroke but injection is what I'm looking for.
The nice thing about four-stroke is they are much quieter and will cruise along at much lower Rpms.

I have come across Cambridge outboards and have had a few bits off them.

I will start to save the pennies.

[fastasfox]

Originally Posted by tinker

Oh dear, what a shame after all that effort. Be interesting to see it with the head off, see what damage. May be oil starvation from one of lub injectors.

On your engine, I'm looking for a lot smaller one than yours but I'm noticing that purchasing a complete package, boat and engine, maybe a better way to go (separate and sell boat trailer after )

I did see this yesterday, gone now but looked a decent set up.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204770222...mis&media=COPY

I will post a few snaps when I get chance to do a tare down.

The problem with purchasing a package boat is I don't have storage at home ,so I would have to pay for more storage... and I already store my boat and a caravan.

[fastasfox]

Originally Posted by Orwell boy

Sorry couldnt help you more saturday ,was a nightmare trying to keep a tab on those in front and those behind but something worked as i managed to turn up and stay till Tony bought his big one !
Have a look at this list ,these people are gents and wont sell any cr.p
couple with warranty may be worth a look ,on my doorstep if you need help !
https://www.seamarknunn.com/downloads/usedob/used.pdf

I was just greatful you turned around...the last thing you want as a novice is to be left out there on your own.

did you end up going to that second outboard failure?
I think it was a much newer outboard.

Seamarknunn....ain't they out near Norwich?
Thanks again...your a star.

[fastasfox]

Originally Posted by spartacus

Sorry to hear that Fastafox. On the positive, better you were cruising in company than the engine go pop on a lone trip.

I know what you mean about investing in a new outboard and £12k burning a hole in your back pocket. It's a case of striking reliability with cost and ease of servicing. If you want to get onto fresh-water lakes, then 4-stroke will be way forward.

I suppose the way I would look at it is, what's the maximum engine hp/weight the Tornado will run with, then an idea of budget and work back from that.

If money was no object, you'd go for main manufacturer 4-stroke. Yamaha F70A is probably lightest in its class at 119kg. You can't even hear the thing running. I've seen a few second hand, but buyer beware in terms of scams.

The trouble with 2-strokes is finding one. Mid-sized outboards tend to stay with their boats, and if they are available - are either run ragged or absolute minters. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground.

Personally for a 4-stroke, I'd avoid Ebay and buy from a main dealer. You can always get it pallatised and shipped plus a video of it running.

your advice makes sense.
Those yams are so quiet and being Japanese you know it's built properly.

I had planned on going to the Scilly Isles in July with my Son....so I'm glad like you said that it happened in a big group.

[fastasfox]

Originally Posted by paintman

Depending on age, would it be worth looking for another one the same as yours as you now have a large quantity of free spare parts?

That thought had gone through my mind...but If I was going to the trouble of stripping the powerhead down I would want new liners Rings Pistons....all of which are unavailable.

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by fastasfox

I agree with you about the two stroke outboards, they are so simple to work on and you can't beat a two stroker for power delivery.....and the smell....takes me back to The grand prix motorbikes back in the 500cc era.
The problem I have is that most two stroke outboards are getting long in the tooth and parts can be tricky to get hold of.
The two stroke injection systems are a constant source of concern because if it gives up so does the engine and I don't fancy pre mixing.
Also two stroke engines have to work so much harder.

The problem with four stroke outboards is they are a pig to work on...and more maintenance hungry and less powerful and much heavier.
My first choice would be the Yamaha 80 four-stroke injection....but they fetch a premium. I wouldn't rule out a carb four-stroke but injection is what I'm looking for.
The nice thing about four-stroke is they are much quieter and will cruise along at much lower Rpms.

I have come across Cambridge outboards and have had a few bits off them.

I will start to save the pennies.

You might want to do a search on here re cambridge outboards aka Dan cooper aka outboards 12 maybe changed his spots but was bad to deal with not so long ago.
4 stroke is the obvious choice nowadays, I love two strokes but as you say there all long in the tooth now having had many of both the easy starting , quiet running & much lower fuel consumption make them the obvious choice. I wouldnt even consider an hpdi 2 stroke, etec opti tldi etc, far too complicated & awful to work on it was a good idea but not a great result imho.
Yamaha & Suzuki 4 strokes are my preference but I wouldnt rule out mercury either. They are easy to look after, reliable & easy to service. Looked after there good for thousands of hours.

[tinker]

Originally Posted by beamishken

You might want to do a search on here re cambridge outboards aka Dan cooper aka outboards 12 maybe changed his spots but was bad to deal with not so long ago.
4 stroke is the obvious choice nowadays, I love two strokes but as you say there all long in the tooth now having had many of both the easy starting , quiet running & much lower fuel consumption make them the obvious choice. I wouldnt even consider an hpdi 2 stroke, etec opti tldi etc, far too complicated & awful to work on it was a good idea but not a great result imho.
Yamaha & Suzuki 4 strokes are my preference but I wouldnt rule out mercury either. They are easy to look after, reliable & easy to service. Looked after there good for thousands of hours.

Just got to highlight this, I'm trying to buy an outboard atm and finding quite a few want deposits to hold onto the engine despite me being able to visit and purchase immediately, "they can't make it until Sunday and loads of offers have come in for it, leave me a small deposit"

Alot of the ads seem to have outboard in their titles, just beware, no need to add injury to trauma.

[Easedalenovice]

Originally Posted by beamishken

You might want to do a search on here re cambridge outboards aka Dan cooper aka outboards 12 maybe changed his spots but was bad to deal with not so long ago.
4 stroke is the obvious choice nowadays, I love two strokes but as you say there all long in the tooth now having had many of both the easy starting , quiet running & much lower fuel consumption make them the obvious choice. I wouldnt even consider an hpdi 2 stroke, etec opti tldi etc, far too complicated & awful to work on it was a good idea but not a great result imho.
Yamaha & Suzuki 4 strokes are my preference but I wouldnt rule out mercury either. They are easy to look after, reliable & easy to service. Looked after there good for thousands of hours.

Cambridge Outboards are one of if not the biggest outboard dealer in the UK. There have indeed been negative press about them in the past but I think this was from a very small source. I have found them very helpful and very fair and reasonable,

[Easedalenovice]

Seamark Nunn is near Felixstowe in Suffolk

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by Easedalenovice

Cambridge Outboards are one of if not the biggest outboard dealer in the UK. There have indeed been negative press about them in the past but I think this was from a very small source. I have found them very helpful and very fair and reasonable,

It wasnt just a small no of folk who had Issues its here to read, personally I wouldnt entertain a company who got big by ripping folk off regardless of how big they are now.
Obviously you'll disagree cos thats what you do

Did you buy your 75 yamaha that doesnt work from them?

https://www.rib.net/forum/f8/ebay-da...net-20792.html

[Easedalenovice]

Originally Posted by beamishken

It wasnt just a small no of folk who had Issues its here to read, personally I wouldnt entertain a company who got big by ripping folk off regardless of how big they are now.
Obviously you'll disagree cos thats what you do

Did you buy your 75 yamaha that doesnt work from them?

https://www.rib.net/forum/f8/ebay-da...net-20792.html

Once again you seem to think that everyone has to agree with you. Newsflash.... Old Beamish is not the font of knowledge

I did not buy my Yamaha 75 from them and I am fairly certain I have fixed it. If it isnt I will fix it. I bought privately.

If they had had what I wanted I would have bought it from them in an instance. But they did not have what I wanted

Tell me did you work on that inboard of yours that seems to be knackered. If so perhaps that's the issue.

I have no Axe to grind re Cambridge Outboards I am simply telling my recent experience based on the purchase of 2 outboards and other items. I received Excellent service.

Tell me Ken have you ever used them or are your comments on here based simply on hearsay.

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by Easedalenovice

Once again you seem to think that everyone has to agree with you. Newsflash.... Old Beamish is not the font of knowledge

I did not buy my Yamaha 75 from them and I am fairly certain I have fixed it. If it isnt I will fix it. I bought privately.

If they had had what I wanted I would have bought it from them in an instance. But they did not have what I wanted

Tell me did you work on that inboard of yours that seems to be knackered. If so perhaps that's the issue.

I have no Axe to grind re Cambridge Outboards I am simply telling my recent experience based on the purchase of 2 outboards and other items. I received Excellent service.

Tell me Ken have you ever used them or are your comments on here based simply on hearsay.

If you want to go down that road then have you ever owned a 4 stroke that you vehemently recommend against? As you state you'd never have one then how can you make a comparison & recommend one over the other? I've had several & worked on many of both so probably know a little!
You reccomend a direct injection 2 stroke which no manufacturer still produces, doesnt that tell you something?

Its not heresy re cambridge outboards & many folk had huge problems with them. Personally I wouldnt patronise an establishment that was built on ripping people off but thats the difference between you & me, Integrity!

If you care to read the delta thread you'll see I obtained that 6lp as a basket case with no history, its getting a complete nut & bolt rebuild (new block) something you will probably never be capable of as basic servicing seems beyond your remit.