Dispute with RIB International Magazine

[Rogue Wave]

I read somewhere here on Ribsters that Ribex at the IOW had over 10,000 visitors. I figured that was a stat verified by the ABC. I agree the IOW isn't inaccesible and the ferry ticket/deal for last year was I thought quite reasonable.

Now before anyone starts calling me two faced that's my view on Ribex. I am not a fan of Mr. Swan or his magazine however I do acknowledge that whilst it's the only one out there then the lack of competition will not help it to change.

The magazine came under intense criticism a year or so ago on this forum and I think it changed for the better after that criticism, it still has a long way to go but it's definitely better than it was 18 months ago.

Mark do you think Hugo will really lose sales whilst the RIB industry is burgeoning and his is the only mag out there! Wheres Mike G when you need him!

[PeterR]

I think many traders use this forum for their own gain and if they let us down we should if keeping to the facts and truth be able to voice our greivence without been run down what do you all think

[seafariskye]

Reading this thread, i am confused...........

I had a three page spread last year in RIB international, i wrote it, and Hugo edited it, i was delighted, in my mind free advertising (as a business) and it was all good press, as they say, so had no problems with it.......... looked good, and from this forum allot of people emailed, and PM'd to say it was a good article......... which is what it was a good article......... no more no less, i paid nothing for it, and it was in a nice, glossy Mag, and am sure allot of you (and others read it?) it gave details on the three boat models i have, which helped all who thought of RIBS this size, and i only ever spoke to Hugo during this, and not since, he was very polite, helpful, as my english writing is poor, and was as keen as buggery to hear from me, and what we get up to..... no problems at all.
I never expected to get any money from it, and that was that, it was in my best interests to do it.
Fjordrafting is surely in the same boat (bad pun) and in my mind they got allot of press from it and rightly so...........

But there is no need to slag the mag off for this, or surely Hugo,? it was obviously an independant reporter who tagged along on their journey home, and poss wrote the article for however many days, and up to him to sort the deal out and sell it to the mag?

from the publicity Fjordrafting got from HIS article maybe they should pay his fee, c'mon they did not take him along for ballast, they took a journalist along with them for a reason....... that being publicity........and they got it.. whats the problem?
In a glossy mag that we all obviously to buy that article would cost over £1000 to get in there and they paid diddly squat.

Maybe the journalist involved should bill them??


Without Rib International we would have nothing to look at for our hobbies/pastimes/expendable Income/jobs, i for one would miss it if it was not there.

Pete F

[jwalker]

Spose that sums it up, Pete.

[Bittentobuggery]

Why is Ribnet not the right forum to publicise a dispute with somebody who makes their living from the ribbing community ?

I suspect that Fjord has exhausted all the other opportunities to arrive at an amicable settlement. What else is he suppposed to do, if R.I. have published his article and welched on the agreement ?

I read the article with interest as it was not the usual R.I. fodder and the challenges faced, made for a much more engaging read than Hugo's Plymouth to Salcombe voyage.

I assumed that the slightly disjointed nature of the article could be attributed to the fact that the copy had been written by someone for whom English was not their primary language. If this copy had been extensively edited by R.I. or even professionally rewritten, then that reflects poorly on the publication.

I think the facts would alow people to arrive at their own conclusions : -

1/ How much did R.I. originally agree to pay for this article and what were the conditions attached ?

2/ Was this article rewritten externally or just edited internally ?

3/ If externally, is there an invoice for this service and if so, for how much ?

4/ When the article was submitted, was there any notification given prior to publication that the author's fee would be forfeited ?


The choice of the word <Edit: Offending word removed JK > in the header is obviously unfortunate, but who amongst us would know the Norwegian equivalent of shyster, cheapskate, tightwad or short arms-deep pockets or whatever other accusation Fjord chose to level.

This is not meant to be a tirade against R.I. or it's editor (I will alert him by email as to the existence of this thread) but it is aimed at the section of the marine industry that thinks that the average punter is just there to be screwed over and provide it with a good living.

Everbody knows that the experience you gain when you buy your first used car, or have the builders in for the first time or commission a new boat, comes at a very high price.

I suspect that this was the fist magazine article that Fjord has agreed to write up.....

[The Jackeens]

Have to say I wasn't bothered either about ££ and pleased when R.I. ran with the article so thanks Mr. H. M. S. All along the guy from Fi's Charity said publicity for peeps who'd had ileostomies doing stuff was as good as £££.

Again 'they' (some starving editing person in a garret? ) only changed two words; where the anchor wouldn't hold 'they' put in best John Wayne 'Quiet Man' speak something like "the anchor was a -swimmin" ....which is hilarious as no Irish person would ever write/say such a thing.

I had to explain to the relatives

Ah go on go on Mr Swann.

missus

[tcwozere]

Originally Posted by seafariskye

Reading this thread, i am confused...........

I had a three page spread last year in RIB international, i wrote it, and Hugo edited it, i was delighted, in my mind free advertising (as a business) and it was all good press, as they say, so had no problems with it.......... looked good, and from this forum allot of people emailed, and PM'd to say it was a good article......... which is what it was a good article......... no more no less, i paid nothing for it, and it was in a nice, glossy Mag, and am sure allot of you (and others read it?) it gave details on the three boat models i have, which helped all who thought of RIBS this size..

The difference being, your article was free advertising for your company, whilst fjordrafting's article was story about a trip most of us can only dream of making, so reading about it is the next best thing..

Originally Posted by seafariskye

from the publicity Fjordrafting got from HIS article maybe they should pay his fee, c'mon they did not take him along for ballast, they took a journalist along with them for a reason....... that being publicity........and they got it.. whats the problem?
In a glossy mag that we all obviously to buy that article would cost over £1000 to get in there and they paid diddly squat.

Maybe the journalist involved should bill them??

What publicity? A Norwegian company being discussed in a UK magazine? The article doesn't even mention the name of the guy's charter company over in Trondheim..


What would you do if a buyer says they will buy something, then they refuse when you have handed over the goods?

[Jono]

I have to admit that sometimes I am completely amazed at what some people will post on this “public” forum without, it seems, any care or consideration of the potential “fall out”. I am not aiming this at anyone in particular, but as the title of this thread contains the word <Edit: Offending word removed JK >, I thought this would be a suitable place to post a response to all these threads. I am sure that there are grounds for Fjord to be disgruntled over, but I am equally sure that writing a post in such a manner is not likely to achieve anything other than animosity between the two parties by embroiling one and all in the conflict. It’s human nature that some will take one side and some will take the other. Polarisation is one of our basic and none too pleasant human traits. I am sure that a few folks on this forum will make judgement on here without knowing both sides of the story. C’mon admit it! We’ve all done it haven’t we? I’m sure there are more than one of us reading this thinking… “That Hugo…what a B*****d!” or “Fjord…what an ungrateful Fecka!)…

Yes, it would be nice if we were informed off all the short-comings of “rogue… No.. NOT that Rogue… traders” in the marine industry, but how do we separate the genuinely bad, from those accused of being bad either in error or maliciously? I am, at the moment, sitting on the sidelines of a land dispute and am bemused to see that the applicant actually believes he is in the right when all the documentary evidence shows that the defendant is right..Ho-hum!

This particular issue of Fjord and RI will never be resolved amicably after such a public accusation. If someone, publicly, accuses me of something in such an aggressive manner, I would tend to refuse to discuss the matter further before entering into litigation and, in the nature of man, I would be inclined to go straight for the jugular………..

Cheers, Jono (No……not that one)

P.S…. I have been “published” in an American, on-line, wooden boat building magazine and was so pleased with myself that I took the offered fee of “free subscription” with great glee…..

[Rogue Wave]

Originally Posted by no fear

I think many traders use this forum for their own gain and if they let us down we should if keeping to the facts and truth be able to voice our greivence without been run down what do you all think

I entirely agree with you! and I feel it does this forum a disservice, I often wonder how many PM's people get if they anounce they are a newcomer and want a boat or a bit of training. I joined this forum to celebrate the joys of ribbing and my love of being on the sea and not to watch some threads being turned into sales pitch's. The power of this forums to link and help enthusiasts and therefore it's a pity that it is also an easy avenue for finding punters!

In this instance however I think it's fair to say that HMS doesn't use the Forums to drum up trade.

[Christopher]

[QUOTE=Rogue Wave] I read somewhere here on Ribsters that Ribex at the IOW had over 10,000 visitors. I figured that was a stat verified by the ABC.

The quoted figure of 10,000 has to be treated with caution. When I asked the officials at the end of the last show what the attendance was, I was quoted a similar figure but was told that this included exhibitors passing through the gate. Now add the number of exhibitors up, multiply by three days, add in the number of times that each exhibitor might go in and out of the gate during the day, and I think you will find a completely different figure for actual visitors

[Rogue Wave]

Hello Christopher,

Unforunately this Forum doesn't have a Tounge in chief emoticon. The quote was from a thread on Ribsters which raised my eyebrows a bit. But then I am a cynical old Celt

Let me explain my comment 'a stat verified by ABC' (which is short for Audit Bureau of Circulation) , It is my belief that the circulation figures are worked out by how many people read one magazine as opposed to buy em!

I guess it's worth pointing out that the Rib and Sports Boat Show is running again at Town Quay Southampton for those of you that don't fancy a sea trip

[The Jackeens]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

I read somewhere here on Ribsters ...

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

The quote was from a thread on Ribsters

Are those typos Stu? Did you mean Kim's forum or here on RN?
Just trying to locate the reference.

missus

[Rogue Wave]

This was the line that I was referring to. The thread was called Rib and Sports Boat Show

Many potential exhibitors pulled out of Ribex last year to their own detriment as almost 10,000 people attended

[EdwardH]

To add my tuppence worth...

Fjordrafting - I see no reason whatsoever why you shouldn't voice the issue here... however your language may be a bit confrontational. I won't get into the rights and wrongs of what HMS/RibInt did as we only have half the story here but I wholeheartedly support your right to voice whatever you wish in here.

Personally, I believe that its supply and demand. RibInt will get away with providing a substandard product for as long as it is the sole publication out there. Its not your cover free that pays the wages, but the ads... and right now, Ribint is one of the few targetted vehicles for advertisers available.

I have not renewed my subscription because I do not feel the product is up to scratch, however I'm sure HMS has done his sums and worked out that he needn't up the quality whilst he is the only 'player' in the market.

However, a salutary lesson - someone with higher standards WILL come along and start a rival mag at some point as the industry grows. And then hopefully the standards across the board will be forced to rise. Personally, i have a lot of time for people who take risks in business and drive new ventures - so hats off to HMS for that, however for me, the mag needs to improve.

others are obviously still happy to buy - you pays your money and you takes your choice.

[narked]

Originally Posted by MeMe

If you dare to take a look at M.B.U.K you'll find that more than 80% of the mag' is taken over by advertisments, 10% by "Where to Ride" (bloody useless if you ask me) with the remaining 10% devoted to new bike trials. Needless to say, I will not be renewing my subscription to that one.

Urgh, most pointless monthly waste of glossy paper known to man. Bought that one myself a couple of times, and apart from the odd techniques article by Steve Peat it's complete rubbish. They actively encourage illegal riding (in one issue I had they ran a 4 page article on a street ride they did somewhere, and were busy gloating about how many security guards and pedestrians they annoyed), and as you say, seem to focus almost entirely on ads and Trials riding. Much prefer MBR or What MTB myself, though Singletrack is a good read too, if a bit arty-farty at times.

As for RIB International, I'd love to be able to buy it locally to try it out, but as nowhere seems to stock it the only option would be subscription, which I'm not willing to do considering how much bad press the thing gets.

[slimtim]

Originally Posted by narked

Urgh, most pointless monthly waste of glossy paper known to man. Bought that one myself a couple of times, and apart from the odd techniques article by Steve Peat it's complete rubbish. They actively encourage illegal riding (in one issue I had they ran a 4 page article on a street ride they did somewhere, and were busy gloating about how many security guards and pedestrians they annoyed), and as you say, seem to focus almost entirely on ads and Trials riding. Much prefer MBR or What MTB myself, though Singletrack is a good read too, if a bit arty-farty at times.

I completely agree, an absolute pile of s**te. I used to buy mbuk all the time, now its just turned into a comic book aimed at young scallies who do their mountain biking in carparks, and I'm not just refering to trials riders!

Anyway, slightly off topic! As a photographer that has and would like to continue to supply images to RI, I wouldn't like to comment, whether it be good or bad. Perhaps we could work towards a RIBnet issue of RI where we get a few articals in one issue and see if it makes a better read?

Tim

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by slimtim

I completely agree, an absolute pile of s**te. I used to buy mbuk all the time, now its just turned into a comic book aimed at young scallies who do their mountain biking in carparks, and I'm not just refering to trials riders!

Anyway, slightly off topic! As a photographer that has and would like to continue to supply images to RI, I wouldn't like to comment, whether it be good or bad. Perhaps we could work towards a RIBnet issue of RI where we get a few articals in one issue and see if it makes a better read?

Tim

This thread started because Fjordrafting felt that HMS was in breach of contract with a reporter who accompanied him on his trip. If what Fjordrafting says is right this should worry you Tim because next time it might be you that is on the receiving end of this type of practice It has always been the case that if a commissioned reporter or photographer did not deliver what you were expecting that you (as the commissioning editor) paid-up but never used them again. Des

[Alan]

Originally Posted by slimtim

Anyway, slightly off topic! As a photographer that has and would like to continue to supply images to RI (snip)
Tim

Tim,

Out of interest do you get paid for images supplied to RI?

(Please tell me to mind my own business if you'd rather not say)

[slimtim]

Originally Posted by Scary Des

This thread started because Fjordrafting felt that HMS was in breach of contract with a reporter who accompanied him on his trip. If what Fjordrafting says is right this should worry you Tim because next time it might be you that is on the receiving end of this type of practice It has always been the case that if a commissioned reporter or photographer did not deliver what you were expecting that you (as the commissioning editor) paid-up but never used them again. Des

I have read a lot about all this stuff as I need to protect myself against people/companies/editors using my work without permission or without paying. I have yet to have any major problems as I try and make sure I get written comfirmation of rights, use and payment (although it sounds as though Fjordrafting's reporter did all this?) before the images are used.

Various bodies setup to protect photographers/reporter's interests always state that if an image has been used without permission, you should invoice for perhaps double (or more) of what would normally be paid. This is all very well and the law would be on your side (i think) but there is often the additional problem of being blacklisted by an editor if you kick up too much of a fuss about misuse of images. If all photographers etc did this then there would be little or no misuse of work!

Cheers

Tim

[slimtim]

Originally Posted by Alan

Tim,

Out of interest do you get paid for images supplied to RI?

(Please tell me to mind my own business if you'd rather not say)

Alan, yes I have been. Per pic, its not a king's ransom, but it is a small mag with a limited production run so it is expected. I was paid for 4 pics though so it all mounts up and I put it all towards my RIB build project so it all helps!

Cheers

Tim