Upgrading from 3m SIB to 4m? Must fit in car.

Fenlander · 23 May 2011, 09:56

For several years we've owned a mint never patched or painted 3m Zodiac Mk.1 from the mid 70s. Inflatable keel type with wooden floorboards. Has been used as a second boat to a Bonwitco so we would take both on holiday with teens using the Zodiac and us (parents) in the GRP Bonwitco. Mostly exploring sea lochs in the west coast of Scotland during summer holidays.

Last year we sold the Bonwitco so just have the Zodiac. At 3m it's not really large enough to take out 4 of us unless it's pretty calm so an upgrade seems in order. I still want to be able to pack the inflatable into our Mondeo sized estate so wondered if 4m would be the max we could have?

We have a Tohatsu 9.8hp 2-stroke s/shaft which I want to keep as it's the max I feel happy carrying over wet rocks at random launch sites. Happy to accept non-planing performance when we're 4-up.

I'd wondered about an Avon S.400 or similar. Any ideas much appreciated.

azzurro · 23 May 2011, 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenlander

For several years we've owned a mint never patched or painted 3m Zodiac Mk.1 from the mid 70s. Inflatable keel type with wooden floorboards. Has been used as a second boat to a Bonwitco so we would take both on holiday with teens using the Zodiac and us (parents) in the GRP Bonwitco. Mostly exploring sea lochs in the west coast of Scotland during summer holidays.

Last year we sold the Bonwitco so just have the Zodiac. At 3m it's not really large enough to take out 4 of us unless it's pretty calm so an upgrade seems in order. I still want to be able to pack the inflatable into our Mondeo sized estate so wondered if 4m would be the max we could have?

We have a Tohatsu 9.8hp 2-stroke s/shaft which I want to keep as it's the max I feel happy carrying over wet rocks at random launch sites. Happy to accept non-planing performance when we're 4-up.

I'd wondered about an Avon S.400 or similar. Any ideas much appreciated.

Aluminum floors do not always fit on a Mondeo boot. I guess wooden plates neither.

Maybe a High Pressure hull fits your needs better, 3.8 to 3.6 meters.

The forum seems to be mad about Bombard Aerotec (special hull design), as it works fine with bigger engines (hull stays stiff) but I guess with a 10HP engine you can choose another brand.

Cheers!

Flyguy · 23 May 2011, 11:22

A 4m inflatable won't be much better. The internal space on ribs is poor. A 9.8 wouldn't get it on plain with 4 on either. I have a 9.8 and 3.4m zodiac and I wouldn't go out with 3 in let alone 4 unless it was for short distances..

Fenlander · 23 May 2011, 12:13

Appreciate the thoughts.

Not sure I want the deep V of the Bombard for pulling the boat through shallows... are they all that design?

I know a 4m isn't that big but it is 33% bigger than the current Zodiac and the rated carrying weight is often 50% greater so more of a safety margin. Our 4-up load is two average adults and two small teens so no more than 3 normal adults overall. I really don't mind that it won't plane 4-up.

The other use configuration is one adult and one or two kids or two adults no kids... I'm sure it will plane OK with that load at 14-16mph which is fine.

Floorboards of the current Zodiac fit in our estate car OK but (and another reason to change) the newer inflatables are a little wider so may be more of a problem.

Thinking of getting a car roofbox for the floorboards, oars, lifejackets and other bulky kit so perhaps just the boat itself and outboard in the estate area.

Do want to stick to Hypalon if possible.

Starovich · 23 May 2011, 13:13

Id be looking at the .
Zodiac Futura Range
Spec sheet
Very shallow draft, options of both Ali and inflatable floors. Good brand well made.

Flyguy · 23 May 2011, 19:57

Well my zodiac 3.4 fastroller and 9.8 fits in the boat of a Mazda 6 estate easily. I inflate/deflate each trip. 20mins tops.
So what about the newer 3.6 zodiac fastroller?

spartacus · 23 May 2011, 23:00

You could consider a Zodiac MKII Futura. It's available with HD (aluminium floor) or H2P (high-pressure air floor). The aluminium floor version is rated for 20-50hp or the air-floor, 10-30hp. Not cheap though.

The MKIIC uses a standard shaft outboard, where the MKII and MKIII (4.7m) require a long-shaft outboard as the tubes are oversized, deeper transom, etc.

I still have a mid-80s Zodiac MKIIC GT and it can be transported in 2 bags. The floor-boards are heavy, and this bag is isn't for the faint hearted. Fine if you're building the boat at a slipway and launching for the day. I used to run it with a Yammie 25hp. That was right on my weight limit and is easier to handle with 2 people, although I've assembled the boat lots of time on my own. Will fit in an estate car with the rear seats folded down, but ideally you would be better off with a box-trailer, or better still a bunk-trailer so you can arrive and launch.

Prices and spec here: http://www.zodiac-boats.co.uk/downlo...202011.doc.pdf

Fenlander · 23 May 2011, 23:55

Further thoughts much appreciated as it's really helped me pin down our needs. Our inflatable gets just 1 or 2 weeks intensive use each year plus another 5-10 odd days out so we don't need heavy duty spec. It is really important too that we keep to the 9.8 2-stroke Tohatsu we already own.

The current old Zodiac weighs about 120lbs assembled with its wooden floorboards and in truth is plenty heavy enough for some of the places we want to put it in the water so I'm really attracted to the Cadet Fastroller as a 3.6m model is only 97lbs. Compare that to a Futura where the 3.7m model is 159lbs for an air floor or 214lbs with alloy floor.

100% don't want to trouble with either a boat or box trailer for our type of use so the heavier models are out of the running. I guess the Cadet Fastroller is a cheaper construction than the Futura or Classic as it's a much lower price? If bought new/nearly new that Strongan material should last a bit though?

How do you get on with the deepish V keel on your Fastroller Flyguy? What about blowing up an HP air floor... elec pump off the car's 12v?

Wondered about this deal not too far from me..

ZODIAC CADET FR 360 FastrolIer Inflatable Boat Air Deck on eBay (end time 25-May-11 12:05:14 BST)

TIMO · 24 May 2011, 00:38

Honwave do a 4m airdeck cheaper than that//£1000 ish .. can put 25hp on it too . Prettier than the zodiac too.. but im biased because i have one,,,lol but mine has solid floor .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2nfz...layer_embedded

TIMO · 24 May 2011, 00:39

Search Products: honwave

Fenlander · 24 May 2011, 06:28

Good call Timo... that Honwave looks really good and they are light if the airdeck version. Good alternative to the Zodiac Cadet Fastroller at £400 or so cheaper and perhaps a better colour scheme. Only thing is a search on here reveals several folks who complain the airdeck Honwaves bending up when on the plane... I wonder if this is really a problem and if the Zodiac is better in this respect?

azzurro · 24 May 2011, 08:27

Fenlander, I believe Fastroller has an inflatable floor and inflatable keel, but not an inflatable hull. You are substituting an alu/wooden floor with an inflatable floor.

Inflatable hulls are deeper than plain floors and somehow more similar to ribs.

Fenlander · 24 May 2011, 09:28

You mean an inflatable hull shape as in a Bombard? If so I really don't want that style.

Just noticed another Zodiac that might suit... the budget Zoom range has a 3.5m & 4.0m... not sure if they have an air floor version though.

fred bolton · 26 May 2011, 06:39

you could put the floor on a roof rack

Flyguy · 26 May 2011, 08:29

Fastrollers have a high pressure floor and integrated keel tube. To be honest once on plain the V part is out of the water anyway. I think this is true of most air floors other than the bombard. But the bombard creates more drag and needs a bigger lump on the back, and its heavier.

I can lift up a FR3.4 and turn it over to empty water out single handed. With decent wheels you can easily drag it up a steep slip. As soon as you go heavier you compromise this portability. This is why I haven't bought a larger engine or boat.

Fenlander · 26 May 2011, 10:36

Fred for longer trips and hols where we have other luggage as well we will have to put something on the roof, possibly in a topbox. That's no problem.

Like you Flyguy weight is crucial. Once the assembled boat gets over the 117lbs of our current one then it's too heavy for how we want to use it. I already have genuine Zodiac transom wheels and prefer not to use them, anyway in many places we operate the foreshore is too rough for them. The weight issue knocks out the Bombards, Futuras, hard floored Honwaves, Quicksilver HD 3.65 etc.

This leaves me with Zodiac 3.6 Fastroller air floor (97lbs), Zodiac 3.4 Cadet wood floor (115lbs) and the Honwave 3.8IE air floor (106lbs).

The two air floor boats have a useful extra 6" interior width and length over the 3.4 Cadet but even the Cadet has almost 80% more useable floor space than my current Zodiac (it has a fixed sprayhood that means a lot of sitting space is unuseable in such a small boat).

If I can drop on a deal for a new one around £1350 I fancy the 3.6 Fastroller but my only decision is do I really want an air floor? I'd assumed they would be the same as wood or alloy in use but using search I've found so many people on this forum comment on odd behaviour when planing including outboard cavitation. Any thoughts on this issue?

The Cadet 3.4 and Honwave 3.8 air floor seem to be within £50 either side of £1000 leaving a bit of cash spare for bow/seat bags etc compared with the Fastroller.

Nick Hearne · 26 May 2011, 12:40

The Bombard Aerodeck 3.8m only weighs in at 43 kg - 95 lbs will pack down small too

Fenlander · 26 May 2011, 13:38

Nick in different family needs/ circumstances I'd have an Aerotec 3.8 with a bigger outboard just for the fun factor.... they're really about the performance aren't they.

But I don't want that deep V when pulling/walking through shallows, I don't want the V shape floor inside it gives either. I really don't want something where its optimum outboard size will be so heavy it negates my portability requirement.

And comparing like for like a new Aerotec is double the cost of the Honwave air deck.

No... great boat but not for me at this time.

TIMO · 26 May 2011, 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenlander

Nick in different family needs/ circumstances I'd have an Aerotec 3.8 with a bigger outboard just for the fun factor.... they're really about the performance aren't they.

But I don't want that deep V when pulling/walking through shallows, I don't want the V shape floor inside it gives either. I really don't want something where its optimum outboard size will be so heavy it negates my portability requirement.

And comparing like for like a new Aerotec is double the cost of the Honwave air deck.

No... great boat but not for me at this time.

Im getting the vibe that you need ally floor mate.

Nick Hearne · 26 May 2011, 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenlander

Nick in different family needs/ circumstances I'd have an Aerotec 3.8 with a bigger outboard just for the fun factor.... they're really about the performance aren't they.

But I don't want that deep V when pulling/walking through shallows, I don't want the V shape floor inside it gives either. I really don't want something where its optimum outboard size will be so heavy it negates my portability requirement.

And comparing like for like a new Aerotec is double the cost of the Honwave air deck.

No... great boat but not for me at this time.

OK but they do fly with a 15hp on then my yam 15 is only 36kg, that is why I bought it as it is a very light package! One + is with the floor you do sit inside the boat not on it as with most & it dose have a drier ride than others!
But is not for everyone at the end of the day

Nick