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Old 13 January 2023, 12:27   #1
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Extreme vs Degraaff

I have just had an offer excepted on a boat and if the sea trial goes ok I will need a trailer.
I looked at all the brands and recently did a post on here regarding sealed and tapered bearings.

I can get a new but ex display Degraaff double axle or for an additional £296 a new Extreme double axle.
Degraaff uses Knott axles with tapered bearings and Extreme with Alko axles with sealed bearings.

Anyone had experience of both?.

I know Degraaff fully weld thereís and Extreme are more of a kit form and bolt together.

Any views on these would be great.
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Old 13 January 2023, 13:09   #2
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Extreme vs Degraaff

Quote:
Originally Posted by martin33100 View Post
I have just had an offer excepted on a boat and if the sea trial goes ok I will need a trailer.

I looked at all the brands and recently did a post on here regarding sealed and tapered bearings.



I can get a new but ex display Degraaff double axle or for an additional £296 a new Extreme double axle.

Degraaff uses Knott axles with tapered bearings and Extreme with Alko axles with sealed bearings.



Anyone had experience of both?.



I know Degraaff fully weld thereís and Extreme are more of a kit form and bolt together.



Any views on these would be great.


Does either manufacturer offer the option of WAP axles with oil immersed bearings & disc brakes? If they did, thatís what I would go for.
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Old 13 January 2023, 13:23   #3
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i have a de graaf and am more than happy with it i usually get the bearing kits from de graaf as there cheaper than sourcing everything from local motor factors .there service has always been spot on
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Old 13 January 2023, 16:16   #4
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I've never bought an extreme so can't give an opinion, but I have bought 2 trailers from Degraff in 2022. (I also bought a Bamber trailer but returned it as it was not right) Degraff are good trailers, probably no better or worse than any other make. The axle / hub / bearing issue is an argument with valid points both sides. Most trailers of a given size are broadly similar in price (+/- few hundred£)

So why did I buy 2 Degraff Trailers?

It's a family company and they are nice people to deal with. You deal with Dan Degraff, you get proper paperwork and I have no doubt that if you had a problem, they would try to help out.

Just my experience
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Old 13 January 2023, 16:40   #5
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Quote:
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I've never bought an extreme so can't give an opinion, but I have bought 2 trailers from Degraff in 2022. (I also bought a Bamber trailer but returned it as it was not right) Degraff are good trailers, probably no better or worse than any other make. The axle / hub / bearing issue is an argument with valid points both sides. Most trailers of a given size are broadly similar in price (+/- few hundred£)

So why did I buy 2 Degraff Trailers?

It's a family company and they are nice people to deal with. You deal with Dan Degraff, you get proper paperwork and I have no doubt that if you had a problem, they would try to help out.

Just my experience
Rob
Until recently I was actually going to choose the Degraaff even though I live in Southampton down the road from Extreme.
However I am now having second thoughts about the axles, my current trailer is on tapered bearings and even though they are cheap to fix they ideally need doing each year.
I was sceptical about the sealed Alko axle bearing setup but recently talking to people that have had both they say they are finding the sealed setup far more reliable, a couple of people have even said they have run a set of bearings for 5-6 years with no issues.
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Old 13 January 2023, 16:45   #6
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Also I have another question, can you over axle a trailer? ie you would get a harsh ride if the boat wasnít really heavy enough to work two axles.
The boat we plan to get weighs around 1400-1500kg when fuelled up and has kit on board, we could get away with a single axle however it would be near its limit.
The only reason I am thinking twin axle is just for more security really.
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Old 13 January 2023, 16:52   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin33100 View Post
Also I have another question, can you over axle a trailer? ie you would get a harsh ride if the boat wasnít really heavy enough to work two axles.

The boat we plan to get weighs around 1400-1500kg when fuelled up and has kit on board, we could get away with a single axle however it would be near its limit.

The only reason I am thinking twin axle is just for more security really.


Donít think you can over axle, however it will have some effects. Greater drag/ weight so more fuel. Also manoeuvre ability, you can spin a single axle by hand good luck with a twin( thereís obvs methods by raising: lowering jockey to help). Assuming you mean a plated twin axle not adding an axle. Youíd have to get it re-plated at vosa.
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Old 13 January 2023, 17:11   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin33100 View Post
Also I have another question, can you over axle a trailer? ie you would get a harsh ride if the boat wasnít really heavy enough to work two axles.

The boat we plan to get weighs around 1400-1500kg when fuelled up and has kit on board, we could get away with a single axle however it would be near its limit.

The only reason I am thinking twin axle is just for more security really.


My 545 RC is on a twin axle trailer. I couldnít find a stock twin axle small enough to take the boat, so I had a 2750kg twin axle customised to fit. The whole outfit weighs 1900kg. I prefer twin axle trailers for the added redundancy, we tow extensively throughout Europe & the UK.
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Old 13 January 2023, 17:14   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin33100 View Post
Also I have another question, can you over axle a trailer? ie you would get a harsh ride if the boat wasnít really heavy enough to work two axles.

The boat we plan to get weighs around 1400-1500kg when fuelled up and has kit on board, we could get away with a single axle however it would be near its limit.

The only reason I am thinking twin axle is just for more security really.
You can get single axle up to 1800kgs which leaves you a healthy margin. Personally I'd avoid twin axle if you can. They are heavier to tow & a pita to manoeuvre when uncoupled I've got a 5.5m rib on a degraff single axle trailer (a great trailer btw) & its easy to push around the shed for one person I also have a 6.5m ribcraft on a twin axle & theres no way even 2 folk are manoeuvring that thing without a vehicle or the fork truck. Folk say you have redundancy but in reality most use it as an excuse to reduce maintenance & so have just as many failures, hubs should be removed at least annually to check shoes etc but if paying someone for service obviously it doubles the cost so further encouraging neglect. A well maintained & serviced single would be my choice in your shoes.

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Old 13 January 2023, 17:16   #10
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Donít think you can over axle, however it will have some effects. Greater drag/ weight so more fuel. Also manoeuvre ability, you can spin a single axle by hand good luck with a twin( thereís obvs methods by raising: lowering jockey to help). Assuming you mean a plated twin axle not adding an axle. Youíd have to get it re-plated at vosa.
I wonít be adding the axle, Extreme will be building it with two so will plate it accordingly.
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Old 13 January 2023, 17:18   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikey Dave View Post
My 545 RC is on a twin axle trailer. I couldnít find a stock twin axle small enough to take the boat, so I had a 2750kg twin axle customised to fit. The whole outfit weighs 1900kg. I prefer twin axle trailers for the added redundancy, we tow extensively throughout Europe & the UK.
Can I ask what trailer you have?
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Old 13 January 2023, 17:41   #12
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Can I ask what trailer you have?


Thatís our outfit on the website

https://vanclaes.com/en/
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Old 13 January 2023, 19:04   #13
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I've got a Degraaff twin axle which I bought second hand and have owned for six or seven years. It gets serviced annually and in spite of hosing out the hubs after dunking, the brakes end up being replaced every year.

But other than an occasional long distance jaunt, the boat lives in a dry stack so the trailer is underused, possibly like many other trailers out there.

The twin axle tows beautifully and behind my Land Cruiser is easy to manoeuver and I'd have no qualms getting another one. I like the perceived redundancy of the twin axles and the stability whilst towing.

I suspect there is probably not much to choose between any of the manufacturers at the same price point and it may boil down to who is more local for servicing or who seems nicer on the phone.
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Old 13 January 2023, 19:19   #14
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I've got a Degraaff twin axle which I bought second hand and have owned for six or seven years. It gets serviced annually and in spite of hosing out the hubs after dunking, the brakes end up being replaced every year.

But other than an occasional long distance jaunt, the boat lives in a dry stack so the trailer is underused, possibly like many other trailers out there.

The twin axle tows beautifully and behind my Land Cruiser is easy to manoeuver and I'd have no qualms getting another one. I like the perceived redundancy of the twin axles and the stability whilst towing.

I suspect there is probably not much to choose between any of the manufacturers at the same price point and it may boil down to who is more local for servicing or who seems nicer on the phone.
I am not that far from you as we live in Southampton, my thinking was like yours reference the two axles.
Hopefully two axles will give less of a chance of being stranded by the side of the road with a missing wheel.
To be fair we have had boats for around 13 years and so far havenít lost a wheel.

Does your Degraaff have the drawbar on the front?
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Old 13 January 2023, 19:27   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyC View Post
I've got a Degraaff twin axle which I bought second hand and have owned for six or seven years. It gets serviced annually and in spite of hosing out the hubs after dunking, the brakes end up being replaced every year.

But other than an occasional long distance jaunt, the boat lives in a dry stack so the trailer is underused, possibly like many other trailers out there.

The twin axle tows beautifully and behind my Land Cruiser is easy to manoeuver and I'd have no qualms getting another one. I like the perceived redundancy of the twin axles and the stability whilst towing.

I suspect there is probably not much to choose between any of the manufacturers at the same price point and it may boil down to who is more local for servicing or who seems nicer on the phone.
I am not that far from you as we live in Southampton, my thinking was like yours reference the two axles.
Hopefully two axles will give less of a chance of being stranded by the side of the road with a missing wheel.
To be fair we have had boats for around 13 years and so far havenít lost a wheel.

Does your Degraaff have the drawbar on the front?
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Old 14 January 2023, 08:40   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin33100 View Post
I am not that far from you as we live in Southampton, my thinking was like yours reference the two axles.
Hopefully two axles will give less of a chance of being stranded by the side of the road with a missing wheel.
To be fair we have had boats for around 13 years and so far havenít lost a wheel.

Does your Degraaff have the drawbar on the front?
Mine is a similar style to the one in the picture, which I've taken from their website.

Mine is a 2600kg trailer and Degraaff seem to have changed the arrangement on everything but their 3500kg trailer to have a drawbar at the front. I prefer the 3500kg arrangement.
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Old 14 January 2023, 10:29   #17
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Mine is a similar style to the one in the picture, which I've taken from their website.

Mine is a 2600kg trailer and Degraaff seem to have changed the arrangement on everything but their 3500kg trailer to have a drawbar at the front. I prefer the 3500kg arrangement.
You are right reference the drawbar, they do that on there two lower rate trailers so they can build one trailer but sell it with either a short or long drawbar.
Being a fully welded trailer I think it’s strong but I do like the Extreme has the hitch straight on the A frame and as the hitch is approx 200mm shorter I could probably move the winch post forward more, basically I don’t really want the trailer to be much over 6M so with a 5.5M boat I would ideally have to pull it forward as much as I can on the trailer.
Also being an engineer I originally wanted tapered bearings so I can maintain them each year but to be honest most people now seem to find the sealed ones more reliable and most boat trailer manufacturers have now gone that way now.
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Old 14 January 2023, 10:52   #18
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Twin axle on mine. (Not Extreme or Degraaf)
Knott suspension units with taper rollers.

Current tow car - for the last 29 years - is a 3.5EFi Classic Range Rover. Previous was a 2.8 Mk2 Granada. Both very capable.

Towed a fair bit incl trailers & caravans single & twin.

I find t/a much nicer to tow & on the motorway you don't get the snaking when National Express come past you at Warp 6, the whole outfit incl car just move very gently sideways.

One of our t/a caravans - brand new - had an offside tyre blow on its inaugural run & I was only aware of it as other drivers were passing me & pointing downwards. We were on the motorway & I have no idea when the tyre went, I'd checked them just before joining the motorway & all were fine.

Downsides are you've got more to service and possibly go wrong!
Unless you have an unusually long jockey wheel & can lift the front wheels off the floor you will need to manoeuvre using the car. Mine is long enough, but it's just easier to use the car. Plenty of practice will help
Electric Motor movers do the job on caravans but I really can't see them being happy submersed in water - esp saltwater. You don't need a mover on each wheel on a t/a, one axle will work, but if you do it does make tight manoeuvring easier.
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Old 27 January 2023, 16:57   #19
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I ended up ordering a single axle Extreme in the end, I was going to go twin axle however as the boat is only 5.6M long they said I would probably have to move the front roller swing arm forward quite a bit to miss the front axle if I did have a twin.
Also the Alko 1900 axle has solid trailing arms and not the hollow pressed steel ones so hopefully they should never rot through.
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Old 27 January 2023, 22:15   #20
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Thatís our outfit on the website

https://vanclaes.com/en/
OMG - the embarrassment Dave ...... only a "standard" trailer!
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