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Old 20 November 2013, 23:24   #61
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This should make it a bit clearer. Apologies for it being badly drawn and the wrong symbols...

Make sure you understand MAM and unladen weight before trying to use it.
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Old 20 November 2013, 23:34   #62
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Why the hell can't the gov have chart like this !!!!
Test it is then!!!
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Old 20 November 2013, 23:45   #63
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Old 21 November 2013, 00:41   #64
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https://www.gov.uk/towing-rules/y/ca...ght-vehicle/no
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Old 21 November 2013, 05:53   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nos4r2 View Post
This should make it a bit clearer. Apologies for it being badly drawn and the wrong symbols...

Make sure you understand MAM and unladen weight before trying to use it.
Just spotted a slight error. If you had a 750kg braked trailer (unusual, but they do exist) then it could still be legal even if the MAM of the trailer was more than half the unladen weight of the towing vehicle.
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Old 21 November 2013, 16:12   #66
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No where does it mention mam of vehicle, it says un laden weight of car and mam of trailer, and as long as the train weight is less than 3500kg.
And the car can legally tow it and weighs more. I have just checked with the deal and our local police station. Those three lines from the .gov website are as is and do not mention mam of car.

They have just changed the license again that has reduced it again to something like 750kg and that's it for b license.
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Old 21 November 2013, 16:26   #67
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kerb weight / unladen weight of vehicle + MAM of trailer both together not more than 3500kg.

( not mam of vehicle)


Mine,

Defender 90. 1750kg kerb weight
5.3 rib. 1200kg. Mam of trailer.

Total. 2950kg,

Car will tow weight and trailer is braked
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Old 21 November 2013, 16:58   #68
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That's what I looked at and makes me legal in dvla eyes and police
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Old 21 November 2013, 19:01   #69
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Originally Posted by blueboy758 View Post
Attachment 87729



kerb weight / unladen weight of vehicle + MAM of trailer both together not more than 3500kg.

( not mam of vehicle)


Mine,

Defender 90. 1750kg kerb weight
5.3 rib. 1200kg. Mam of trailer.

Total. 2950kg,

Car will tow weight and trailer is braked


Some websites say it is the combined MAM of the trailer and MAM of the vehicle that cannot exceed 3500kg....but
According to GOV.UK it is the combined weight of the trailer and vehicle – for which I read the weight as if you were to visit a weighbridge.

in the above example of the defender 90, if your trailer is loaded to capacity, you will be able to carry an additional 550kg of cargo in the vehicle. the weight on a weighbridge would therefore be 3500kg.



Cat B = vehicles with kerb weight (unladen+driver) of up to 3500kg.

Behind which you can tow a trailer of MAM (plated maximum fully laden weight) up to 750kg. Combined train weight must not exceed 4,250kg.


Nissan kerb weight is 3210kg. So according to GOV.UK you could tow a trailer of MAM 750kg, and actually load the trailer to 750kg on the weighbridge, and only carry an additional 290kg of stuff in the back of your car – that’s not a lot – 3 passengers with light luggage.


If your trailer was rated to greater than 750kg, then this would theoretically be fine too - so long as the combined weight on the weighbridge is less than 3500kg this time. In practice this doesn't give you a lot of headroom with a heavy unladen towing vehicle - the weighbridge weight of your trailer could only be 290kg!).


With your Nissan, if you have a trailer with MAM over 750kg and you take your trailer and boat to the weighbridge and it weighs in at less than 750kg, then I would under-rate the trailer and plate it at 750kg as you will be able to carry more (4250kg as opposed to 3500kg)! (Put any fuel tanks, kit, flare boxes in the vehicle)

If you want to realistically tow a trailer with a MAM greater than 750kg, then you need a smaller vehicle (how perverse!).

The above example of unladen Defender 90 plus trailer of MAM 1200 is good, (highlighting that the kerb weight of the vehicle needs to be greater than the MAM of the trailer)

One thing to bear in mind is the 'combined weight'. You'll want to stick people and kit in the vehicle? Unladen weight is vehicle + fuel + driver.
If you had a vehicle of unladen (kerb) weight of 1800 and a trailer of MAM 1600 loaded to capacity, you could only carry one passenger and a bag! (100kg headroom to get the combined weight below 3500kg). Luckily ribs are usually light loads -

I have a 1400 MAM trailer but with the rib on the top it only actually weighs 1100kg. My vehicle has to be over 1400 unladen weight(it is 1650kg), meaning I can carry an extra 750kg of crap with me - namely 4 burly passengers and 100kg of luggage each - of which I can shove 300kg of crap in the trailer. Guidelines are that the trailer is 85% max of the weight of the car. For me this is the ‘sweet spot’ of trailer MAM and vehicle kerb weight.

I’d add a few minor touches to the flowchart
For trailers with MAM over 750kg:
Rule 1) is the unladen (kerb) weight of the vehicle under 3500kg? Yes - OK - next rule
Rule 2) is the unladen weight of the vehicle greater than the MAM (plated fully laden max weight of the trailer)? Yes - OK - next rule
Rule 3) is the LOADED weight of the trailer and vehicle (as you would get on a weighbridge) less than 3500kg? Yes - OK
Rule 4) (often overlooked) - is your loaded trailer under the towing capacity specified by the vehicle manufacturer? YES - you are legal.

For trailers with a MAM of up to 750kg
Rule 1) is the unladen weight of the vehicle under 3500kg? Yes - OK - next rule
Rule 2) is your unladen vehicle weight at least double the MAM of the trailer? Yes – ok –next rule
Rule 2) is the LOADED weight of the vehicle plus trailer (as you would get on a weighbridge) under 4250kg? Yes - ok - next rule
Rule 3) (often overlooked) - is your loaded trailer under the towing capacity specified by the vehicle manufacturer? YES - you are legal
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Old 21 November 2013, 19:15   #70
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Going off that I'm legal
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Old 21 November 2013, 19:47   #71
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ive just got b+e on my licence because i wrongly believed that i would be legal based on the combined weight rule. it is always based on plated maximums as actual weights vary way too much - even down to how much fuel you have in the car! blueboy, i fear that you are arguing this til the death so as to convince yourself that you are legal (i used to) but i think that you too need to pass your b+e for towing behind your landy. it is a waste of money (and a lot of money too), and no i dont think its entirely right, but as somebody said already, the government is there to fleece you at every stage.
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Old 21 November 2013, 19:52   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SW Boat Transport View Post
Just spotted a slight error. If you had a 750kg braked trailer (unusual, but they do exist) then it could still be legal even if the MAM of the trailer was more than half the unladen weight of the towing vehicle.
True. Not quite sure how to incorporate that!

Gramas, just take the test. You'll be legal and won't have to worry if you get a bigger boat.
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Old 21 November 2013, 20:07   #73
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haha, it was the thought of a bigger boat that made my mind up!
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Old 21 November 2013, 21:14   #74
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As I said way back, forget the weight and take the test, you won't have to worry if the ash tray is full or the misses has too much gear on lol we spent thousands at work putting younger drivers throu the test to stay on the right side of the rozzers.
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Old 23 November 2013, 18:48   #75
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Just going over things as costs for 2days training +test £440
Will sit it after Christmas but in meantime, how do I legally lower my braked trailer rating to 750kg ?
If stopped by vosa if I lowered it can they fine me?
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Old 23 November 2013, 18:55   #76
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Can't check trailers MAM til few weeks time but here's pics give folk idea or they may know rough size of its mam?

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Old 23 November 2013, 18:57   #77
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You need a new plate and I suspect the official way is to get the manufacturer to supply a new plate. Some manufacturers will have been asked numerous times, others may think this a very odd request.

But since I've had at least 2 trailers that were too old to ever have plates with weights I'm not 100% sure! 1 of them was home made so never had any plate.

NTTA - Trailer Law - Trailer Maximum Weights

My current little box trailer has no plate (almost certainly home built) although the hitch is only rated to 500kg and is stamped as such. That said the wheels are only rated to 395kg I think and I doubt even filled with lead it would weight that much!

By Christmas time it will be more like triggers broom though! Most of it will have been rebuilt!
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Old 23 November 2013, 19:07   #78
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Hallmark trailers are an indespension brand. Indespension are familiar with down rating trailers - give them a call.

Not sure what happens if you want to "up rate" it back at a later date. Can you just plop the old plate back on>?

It looks like its maybe a pre-decessor of the current 1.3HE which has a GVW of 1100 and a load of about 800kg.

If you down rate to 750kg and your trailer weighs 300kg that only leaves 450kg for the boat which seems quite light?
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Old 23 November 2013, 19:14   #79
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I'm sure I've seen someone suggest this was an Osprey before when Osprey were part of Northern Diver, Don't know if thats true but a current 4.5m Osprey Kestrel comes in at 280kg dry with no engine. Modern 4 smoke 90HP Yamie is in the 170kg range. That puts you over before you add fuel, anchor, etc
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Old 23 November 2013, 19:19   #80
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Am I right tho that it's not its actual weight but plated weight or if stopped by vosa etc they would weigh me n if over 3500kg I'd be fined
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