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Old 06 January 2014, 01:22   #1
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Dual battery system?

Hopefully this will be the last annoying question for a while.

I'm going to fit a proper dual battery system but have a couple of questions.

My outboard is a 2002 evinrude ficht 150 2 stroke and I'm struggling to find the output current of the alternator. I think it's 35A after lots of googling but if someone could confirm that would be great.

I'm looking to fit an automatic charge relay and dual circuit switch and have seen the blue sea systems add battery kits but I'm struggling to find a uk supplier particularly for the 65A version (although I did find one with the 120A version). Does anyone know of a supplier or are there any other manufacturers that do similar kits. I notice that normal relays for non marine applications are about 15 with marine versions starting around 47 but that's typical I guess!

Again any help would be greatly appreciated, I feel like I'm trying to climb a learning cliff rather than a learning curve.

Cheers
Rob
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Old 06 January 2014, 05:45   #2
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Originally Posted by desertrat View Post
Hopefully this will be the last annoying question for a while.

I'm going to fit a proper dual battery system but have a couple of questions.

My outboard is a 2002 evinrude ficht 150 2 stroke and I'm struggling to find the output current of the alternator. I think it's 35A after lots of googling but if someone could confirm that would be great.

I'm looking to fit an automatic charge relay and dual circuit switch and have seen the blue sea systems add battery kits but I'm struggling to find a uk supplier particularly for the 65A version (although I did find one with the 120A version). Does anyone know of a supplier or are there any other manufacturers that do similar kits. I notice that normal relays for non marine applications are about 15 with marine versions starting around 47 but that's typical I guess!

Again any help would be greatly appreciated, I feel like I'm trying to climb a learning cliff rather than a learning curve.

Cheers
Rob
Something like this?

Aquafax Marine & Industrial Equipment

Aquafax are a decent outfit and always have a good range of marine electrical kit and equipment in stock, in my experience.
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Old 06 January 2014, 07:13   #3
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Old 06 January 2014, 10:56   #4
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I've used this one in the past...... Aquafax Marine & Industrial Equipment
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Old 06 January 2014, 11:03   #5
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Do a bit more digging on your engine, speak to Mike Vincent at South Coast Marine. I seem to think that the FICHTS had a dual battery charging facility built in, but I could be wrong. I know the Etecs do & I'm 75% sure the FICHTS did.
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Old 06 January 2014, 11:18   #6
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I think your correct, a quick google search found this.....

The FICHT engines all have the capacity to independently charge and maintain a second battery. On the engine stb. side, on the lower aft part of the black power distribution block, there is a red wire held in place with a 3/8" headed bolt and a star lockwasher. Connect your wire from the battery at this point. Make sure the 50 amp fuse is situated at the battery positive terminal to protect the whole length of wire in case of a short. On the motor, a fusable link protects its wiring. Use a 10 gauge or larger wire to connect the negative posts from the auxilliary battery to the starting battery.
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Old 06 January 2014, 19:41   #7
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I investigated charging circuits years ago and whilst many people have had success with these circuits it's just one more thing to go wrong IMO.

I run twin batteries on my Vipermax. I also have an Evinrude 150 but the slightly newer 2004 DI. My philosophy is to keep things simples. Therefore I have twins set up in Parallel off of a 4 way rotary switch. Off-1-2-Both. Before the off I check the condition of each battery against the voltmeter (see if anything is obviously wrong) then I do all my running on "Both" effectivley making one high Ah battery. This ensures I charge both at the same time. When anchoring for fishing I have the option to select either battery for running the white light/lights/fishfinder/GPS/VHF and any other electrics on board. That way if I run it low I'm not worried as I will rely on my second "protected" battery.

I've had this RIB for nearly 7 years and never had a problem with my Batteries being under charged or being flat.

Hope this helps?
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Old 06 January 2014, 22:48   #8
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Hi Rob

I did some experimenting with twin batteries and diode bridges / isolators and equivalent since I wanted something close to 'fool proof ' on the electrics of our boat.

I also have a twin battery setup (2 optima's, 1 yellow top deepcycle and a redtop for starting power) and I use a victron cyrix-i battery separator between them and the engine's alternator with the red top as primary startup battery for the engine . This victron separator is not a diode bridge / diode isolator but is slightly more sophisticated gizmo (plus it has no voltage drop like a diode isolator would have.

I'm not an electrics whizz but I hope above makes sense - this link may be clearer than me trying to explain how the thing works actually:

http://www.victronenergy.com/upload/...0%20-%20EN.pdf

It works perfectly so far...
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Old 06 January 2014, 23:00   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler View Post
I've used this one in the past...... Aquafax Marine & Industrial Equipment
What he said.
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Old 08 January 2014, 13:55   #10
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From what PD and Dirk Diggler have said, it would seem sensible to use the engines ability to charge a second battery. Then there is no need to go for complicated electronic gizmos like some people have. I set this up on my Etec last year and it has worked very well, I attach a wiring diagram to show how it is set up. The right hand side shows the twin battery set up, each charger independent from the engine.

There has been a lot of bad press for the Off-1-2-Both switches, they have a tendency to fry engine EMMs/ECUs I believe, and may invalidate your warranty I think I read somewhere..

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Old 08 January 2014, 16:41   #11
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There has been a lot of bad press for the Off-1-2-Both switches, they have a tendency to fry engine EMMs/ECUs I believe, and may invalidate your warranty I think I read somewhere..
have had friends with similar experience

btw : looking at yr schematics...this is a realy nice feature on these evinrudes!
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Old 08 January 2014, 17:20   #12
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Originally Posted by gotchiguy View Post
There has been a lot of bad press for the Off-1-2-Both switches, they have a tendency to fry engine EMMs/ECUs I believe, and may invalidate your warranty I think I read somewhere..
I'd like to see more about this if it is the case (I've never heard that.)

Just about all battery selectors are make-before-break switches, which won't cause a problem unless switched to OFF with the motor running.

jky
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Old 08 January 2014, 20:07   #13
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Originally Posted by gotchiguy View Post

There has been a lot of bad press for the Off-1-2-Both switches, they have a tendency to fry engine EMMs/ECUs I believe, and may invalidate your warranty I think I read somewhere..
I would certainly like to see your references to frying ECU's, this is something I have never heard of before and am interested in learning more.

As stated earlier, I've had nearly 7 years of trouble free running using this set-up. I must admit to changing the battery selector position before starting the outboard though. The Evinrude stealer didn't mention anything about warranty when he PDI's and set-up the outboard.
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Old 08 January 2014, 20:09   #14
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Just about all battery selectors are make-before-break switches, which won't cause a problem unless switched to OFF with the motor running.

jky
Same as every other main electrical isolator then?
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Old 09 January 2014, 00:05   #15
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Thanks for all the help guys.

I think I now know how I'm going to do this, my O/B does indeed have the facility to charge two batteries independently so I'm going to use it. I'm not using a 1,2,1+2 switch as it doesn't quite do what I want it to. I'm going to use an off,on,both switch which will give me dual circuits but keep them entirely separate unless really needed.

I'd also like to know if anyone has actually known of anyone cooking an EMM using circuits/switches like this as again I've read the friend of a friend posts on the web but nothing first hand. If it could happen then I will fit one extra switch to enable me to completely isolate the second battery charging feed that comes from the O/B before flicking the master switch to 'both batteries' for emergency starting.

Cheers
Rob
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Old 09 January 2014, 06:01   #16
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Checked my 'friend of friend' and that was an idiot induced screwup ending with the switch in 'off ' mode at the wrong time and it had nothing to do with the switch itself apparently.......
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Old 09 January 2014, 09:04   #17
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I've fried an EMM, still not sure how it happened, could have been operator error The problem arises when you connect/ dis-connect a battery with the engine running, the subsequent surge blows the charging regulator which for some reason BRP decided to house inside a 1k computer. The golden rule is NEVER open or close a battery switch with an engine running. Make sure that ALL connections are good & tight. Use good quality switches & change them at the first signs of corrosion.
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Old 09 January 2014, 09:07   #18
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+1 for the Victron cyrix-I voltage sensitive relay
if you don't go for the engine- supplied circuit

I would almost call it idiot proof

I have a "start" battery and a "house" battery. I have a voltmeter gauge on the console connected to the start battery, and the Plotter shows the voltage on the house battery for judging the level of charge in each and that both are receiving charge

Although you can tell from voltages, It would be reassuring to have a light on the console to indicate the batteries are combined. Not all models do this.


http://www.victronenergy.com/battery...20a-225a-425a/
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Old 09 January 2014, 10:12   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertrat View Post
Thanks for all the help guys.

I think I now know how I'm going to do this, my O/B does indeed have the facility to charge two batteries independently so I'm going to use it. I'm not using a 1,2,1+2 switch as it doesn't quite do what I want it to. I'm going to use an off,on,both switch which will give me dual circuits but keep them entirely separate unless really needed.

I'd also like to know if anyone has actually known of anyone cooking an EMM using circuits/switches like this as again I've read the friend of a friend posts on the web but nothing first hand. If it could happen then I will fit one extra switch to enable me to completely isolate the second battery charging feed that comes from the O/B before flicking the master switch to 'both batteries' for emergency starting.

Cheers
Rob
Just to throw in another option

I think from memory some of the Blue sea switches keep the contact when switching from 1 or 2 to both, I've not got the paperwork here, but their ACR has a lock out if the house battery drops below a set voltage and can't be charged to protect your starter battery

Jim
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Old 09 January 2014, 16:38   #20
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Same as every other main electrical isolator then?
Pretty much.

My point was that the battery selectors are purpose designed for, well, switching batteries, and shouldn't cause a problem if you don't disconnect everything while running.

jky
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