is my gearbox broken?

two stroke mick · 22 August 2015, 13:38

I was out yesterday with ribtec 1 et al in clew bay. there was a good blow f4- f5. we were heading to clare island and running hard. I was on and off the power and from time to time i would miss time the landings and the prop would spinn without gripping the water. on reaching Clare island whe stopped in the harbour i placed the engine into nutral and then into forward. the revs rose and there was a delay in the engagement of forward gear and then it engauged with a thump. I placed it into nutral and out not get it into forward again. I had reverse. I had a long slow 2-3 kn trip in reverse from Clare Island to Old Head to allow for the recovery of the rib.

with the engine off and in the trottle in forward position (i.e. in gear). When I turn the prop I can feel the cylinders going in and out. When I they try turning the flywheel there is no movement in the prop. with the engine running on muffs and forward gear selected I can stop the prop from spinning with a light stick.

Question is my gearbox broken or it this a problem with the cables out of adjustment?

matt h · 22 August 2015, 14:11

Interesting symptoms..process of elimination ...Drain the gear oil and see if there are metal filings that come out or a silvery colour at the very least. It sort of Sounds like you could have stripped a main forward gear.
Also take prop off and check the splines for stripping and the hub !

whiskylee · 22 August 2015, 16:16

Sounds like the dog clutch is worn or broken, you have checked to see if the gear linkage engages when you select forward, neutral & reverse. Drop the lower unit put in gear and turn the drive shaft manually and see if the prop shaft turns
Hope this helps

two stroke mick · 22 August 2015, 16:31

if it is the main gear / dog cluch busted is this an expensive repair?

whiskylee · 22 August 2015, 17:54

Not sure what engine you have but on a V6 parts can be £100 - £300 then you need specialist tools to dismantle and re set. Might be worth looking for a second hand lower unit if yours is shot

two stroke mick · 22 August 2015, 20:45

I pulled the prop as suggested by Matth. The prop shaft and splines are perfect. I also drained the gear oil. there was a small dusting of metal shavings on the magnet on the drain plug. Bit like if you used sand paper to sharpen a lead pencil. The particles were very small and there was not a lot of them.The gear oil was changes 4 years ago ( assuming that the dealer did it as the engine had only 60 hrs on it) the gear oil was olive green in color almost burn smell from the oil. I ran a strong magnet through the oil but it picked up no more shavings.
TSM

two stroke mick · 22 August 2015, 20:55

This is a good u tube video on how to change the gear oil in an outboard (in this case an etec) The section on the filings was very interesting to me as it indicates that there are no chips floating around the gear case as i did not find any in the oil or attached to the magnet on the drain plug.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVlBtOzLYRE

willk · 22 August 2015, 21:23

Bit of poor luck there Mick. I wonder was your initial guess about the cables correct? It WAS lumpy and you WERE caning it....

How did the Donegal Bay lads fare out?

two stroke mick · 22 August 2015, 22:31

Wilk

The boys from up north did not let the side down. A very pleasent bunch. They went onto Inish Boffin after Clare island. I put the rib into reverse and headed from Clare Island to Old head (south east of Clare Island). At 2 kn average speed I reached old head about 2.5 hr later with a flooded boat but at least I was on the mainland (these rib things are great, dont you know, ye fill them with water and they still wont sink). The SR 5.4 had electrical problems which caused the yam 90 2 stroke to die. I believe it was battery failure. I presume they left the rib on Clare island and returned today with a fresh battery. It was good to run in company and it was my first time in company which originated from Ribnet.

I will get Duffys in Headford (galway) to look at it and give it a service.

TSM

spartacus · 23 August 2015, 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by two stroke mick

I had reverse. I had a long slow 2-3 kn trip in reverse from Clare Island to Old Head to allow for the recovery of the rib.

That's pretty good going, and kind of a last resort. A rib in reverse is like driving a barge, and I can see why the boat was flooded as the freeboard at the transom end is shallow.

Keep us posted about the outcome on the engine. Also a good opportunity to consider an auxilliary engine.

two stroke mick · 24 August 2015, 08:40

In summary I have drained the gear oil there was no water in the gear oil, I checked the oil for lumps of metal and I found none. The lower bung which has a magnet on it did not have lumps of metal on it, just a very light coating of metal dust. I check the volume of oil and found it to be in or around the correct volume ( smelly though)

Question is it safe to assume that the gearbox is not broken i.e. gears not chipped and dog cluch not broken? and that the problem may lie with cables or adjustments

TSM.

whiskylee · 24 August 2015, 08:51

Hope your right ! But you need to test the gearbox. Have you had someone put it in gear at the control box and you watch the gear linkage move forward neutral reverse when not running

Had a box fail with no metal pieces in the oil so that doesn't always rule out failure

Can you not just drop the lower unit then you can manually put in gears and see if you have a gearbox problems

Ribtec1 · 24 August 2015, 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by two stroke mick

I was out yesterday with ribtec 1 et al in clew bay. there was a good blow f4- f5. we were heading to clare island and running hard. I was on and off the power and from time to time i would miss time the landings and the prop would spinn without gripping the water. on reaching Clare island whe stopped in the harbour i placed the engine into nutral and then into forward. the revs rose and there was a delay in the engagement of forward gear and then it engauged with a thump. I placed it into nutral and out not get it into forward again. I had reverse. I had a long slow 2-3 kn trip in reverse from Clare Island to Old Head to allow for the recovery of the rib.

with the engine off and in the trottle in forward position (i.e. in gear). When I turn the prop I can feel the cylinders going in and out. When I they try turning the flywheel there is no movement in the prop. with the engine running on muffs and forward gear selected I can stop the prop from spinning with a light stick.

Question is my gearbox broken or it this a problem with the cables out of adjustment?

My sympathies with tsm as he was disappointed in not being able to continue however my concern is that there was a lack of white coated people on the island with the necessary jacket when he told us that he was going back out in a f4-5 and reversing back to the mainland

Tony Barber · 24 August 2015, 14:44

Hi. In my experience smelly gearbox oil is not a good sign, something has run hot in there.

Double check the cables etc but I would be getting the gearbox opened up for inspection.

two stroke mick · 24 August 2015, 16:00

The oil was olive green in colour not black. would the smeely oil still indicate high temps.

willk · 24 August 2015, 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by two stroke mick

The oil was olive green in colour not black. would the smeely oil still indicate high temps.

My limited experience with old gearbox oil is that it stinks! Dunno if mine was overheated - doubt it though...

Last Tango · 24 August 2015, 17:56

Are we not starting at the wrong end ? I'd try running it on "Muffs" with the gear shift cable disconnected from the engine and try moving the linkage under the cowl through FNR before I started pulling lower unit off. I sounds more like a broken control box or cable. And.... if your gear oil has been in there for four years it's going to stink.!

two stroke mick · 24 August 2015, 18:15

Tango

I disconnected the cable from the gear linkage this evening on return form work. I then engauged the gear selector directlty by hand and spun the fly wheel. The prop seemed to turn as it should. Now comes two questions

1) where in ireland can i get the correct gear oil and new washers
2) I need new cables. are they a genric item or are there types for etces mariner, honda etc.
what type of cable would you recommend

tsm

Last Tango · 24 August 2015, 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by two stroke mick

Tango

1) where in ireland can i get the correct gear oil and new washers
2) I need new cables. are they a genric item or are there types for etces mariner, honda etc.
what type of cable would you recommend

tsm

1) Best get a response from the local members...but won't be hard to find.
2) They are generic but there is a few variations....need to speak to the supplier. (unless one of the end fittings is broken you should be able to re-use them.)
Give the loose gear cable end a pull. If it's broken the core might just pull out then you've found your problem. You'll need to open the control box to identify and change the cable anyway so might as well have a look in there to see if anything is broken.
Teleflex Extreme cables are way better than standard cables and not that much more expensive.
You can get these of ebay but you have to know exactly what your looking for.
I'm sure one of the trade members will step in and keep you right.

two stroke mick · 16 November 2015, 14:19

I fitted the xtreme cables over the weekend they are a great improvement over the old cables.