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Old 18 January 2004, 22:27   #41
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Not every school has a trainer. I think you are mistaking this word for instructor.

Sorry Missus, my mistake. Tell Mr to put the bottle down then!
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Old 18 January 2004, 22:31   #42
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MCA FAQs

"If the vessel does not proceed to sea does this mean the NDP Code does not apply?


Strictly speaking yes, however commercial vessels operating in Categorised Waters must comply with Fire Prevention and Life Saving Appliances. Local Authorities may apply the NDP Code standards to vessels licensed under their jurisdiction using Local Byelaws"

However you still need a liferaft according to this, and that will be £500 a year.

Pete


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Old 18 January 2004, 22:33   #43
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C/D Waters

Could you then tell me where it says that i have to code my boat to work in the solent ? and why will all the non coded boats disappear if they do not have to be coded because they are not at Sea but are in catagory c/d water?

Stuart,

Unfortunately its in Section 94 of the public health acts amendment act 1907 and this applies to the various local authorities in the Solent area.
The local authorities either then apply their own rules or just say that the boat should be fully coded. The last time I was involved with a Local Authority certified boat was last summer (June 2003) and the principal differences in equipment requirements were that a liferaft was not required under certain circumstances.
The Local Authority was Eastleigh Borough Council (Hamble is in Eastleigh!)

Many LAs are getting reluctant to be involved in this and there is an "Inland Code" from the MCA in preparation at currently at consultation stage.

So, at the moment, if you are operating in the Solent only it may be worth a call to the Lymington Harbour Commissioners to see if they are still certifying boats.

I guess that this is not quite the good news that you wanted but I hope it helps.


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Old 18 January 2004, 22:37   #44
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Hi - this is my bit-

It is far harder to become a RYA Recognised Training Centre than to code a boat, its not just a simple process off becoming a powerboat instructor. Even if you're an instructor you can't issue certs unless your a part of a RTC (which is the best part of a years work/risk assesemnts/safet ypolicy's/operating manuals/investigation).

If you are a RTC the rya check the boats (equip condition etc) at least once a year! if your boats are ok, you can then go 3 miles from cat c or d waters by day or night.

We run coded boats so we can cover more of the coast and offer students more local knowledge.

The RYA have to have this, as I understand it is impos' to code a open RIB for night time use. Thats why we have to run Advanced courses no more than 3 miles from cat c or d waters. Some centres ignore this and go further than there 3 miles without coding - but run the risk of getting found out (best not get me started on this subject).

Hope this helps?????
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Old 18 January 2004, 22:47   #45
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Hi Ducan,
Thanks for that.

Spoke to them and got .........?

Your right, they are very very reluctant to get involved and this is my point.
The MCA do not want to now because you are not going to Sea and the LA do not want the hassle. It should be the same person that issues the taxi permits that should issue the boat permits!!

I do belive the inland code will apply to the Solent and it will be very interesting to see what it says. Do we know when its out yet?

Fancy that happening in the Hamble area!!

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Old 18 January 2004, 23:16   #46
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Jackeen: Can the MCA prosecute? Yes http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga-ne...tions_2001.htm

The Coastguard is taking a great interest in coded/uncoded craft. We’ve been approached twice by the Coastguards in Poole who popped into Cobbs Quay & checked out who was operating and I know of charter craft boarded (and shut down) outside the entrance to Poole Harbour for a breach of the codes.

Jackeen: You’re not far wrong re the number of Trainers - 175, Advanced Instructors - 509, Powerboat Instructors – 4809. I think the number of Advanced Instructors will rise quite a lot this year quite a lot due to the new Intermediate course (only Advanced Instructors can teach it)

Louise: Agreed 2k for the boat kit, about £300/400 to get it surveyed, then an annual charge each year.

Jono: There are seemingly a few ways to look at getting Cat 3 coding without too much difficulty. 1) a tent like structure from the a frame to the bow properly tied down, 2) Austen on this forum has a Ribeye coded to Cat 3 but with some nighttime restrictions (10 miles from a safe haven rather than 20 – is there anything else Austen?) 2) and I believe pairing boats to operate together can make a difference. You’ll need proper advice though, track down a surveyor with specific RIB experience as some are far more helpful than others.

SCM/Stuart: My ‘safer/better’ refers to my view that if you are venturing into the area of commercial work I would rather follow the letter of the MCA law – even if it is not 100% required to do so in a particular area. This is though a personal view.

RYA schools: The RYA is a ‘Certifying Authority’ designated as such by the MCA (ie you can pay them to survey your vessel for coding, MECAL & YBDSA are others) and as such effectively codes training RIBs under the Red Code for Cat 5 & 6 operation – 3 miles from a nominated departure point. The slight anomaly being this extends to night time work for Advanced Courses

Paul
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Old 18 January 2004, 23:21   #47
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Paul, can you explain what a Powerboat Trainer can do that an Instructor can't, and are there different levels of Trainers? I understood there to be fewer Trainers than this, so maybe I'm getting this level mixed up as well.

TIA
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Old 18 January 2004, 23:29   #48
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Paul

Cheers for the advice, we are looking in to this with pro Sport and a Red Bay type frame i have purchased.

Ian

Not to jump in on a question you asked paul but: A trainer can Train Instructors, two levels: 1 to to train level 2 & safety boat instructors & the other to to train Advanced Instructors.
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Old 18 January 2004, 23:33   #49
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Thanks Jono.
So there are Trainers and Advanced Trainers?
Who assesses the Trainers, is there one top man?
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Old 18 January 2004, 23:36   #50
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John Mendizes (not sure of the spelling)
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Old 18 January 2004, 23:46   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by scm
John Mendizes (not sure of the spelling)
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Jon Mendez

Head of RYA Powerboating & Motor Cruising

Really nice guy and fighting the PB side of the RYA.
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Old 19 January 2004, 08:30   #52
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There is only one level of Powerboat Trainers. They train all levels of Instructors

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Old 19 January 2004, 08:43   #53
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Thought that had changed from this year? Also a pre test now before trainers course/exam? I could be wrong
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Old 19 January 2004, 09:34   #54
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Codeing-Why Bother?

One point that most have missed is that if you take on any passengers, whether they pay cash, fuel costs or any reinbursements that this may be deemed as a commercial operation.
Like all things as long as nobody get hurts or you dont have any problems then why bother with codeing.......because if the worst happens and you do have an accident or some gets hurt then your insurance company will walk away from you and offer no help at all. We operate charter boats, both hard boats and previously ribs and have seen the changes from Local authority licencing when you went up infront of your councillors to get a "Boat Hirers Licence" through to the current day of Codeing.
Previously our insurance costs were much the same as a normal pleasure boat and all you had to do was notify your insurers that you intented to charter and they would include this clause in your policy. Now the costs is about 3 times that of normal policies with the conditions like "warranted vessel complies with MCA Code of Practise for intended operating area", "Qualified skipper incharge at all times", "Risk Assesments in place", "Operation Manual" etc etc etc.
Me personally, I quite like the life style that I have at the moment and would not like to lose everything because of an incident and subsequent prosecution and claims.
Andy
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Old 19 January 2004, 10:06   #55
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Totally agree with Andy, as to the Trainers point Jono makes the change this year has been to implement precourse assessments for anyone recommended to attend the Trainers course. If you pass this then would be accepted onto the course.

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Old 19 January 2004, 22:19   #56
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From the MCA Website:

In February 2003, the draft Small Passenger Boat Code for Inland Waterways was published for public consultation.

The Code promotes best practice for the safety of vessels (other than pleasure vessels) which carry no more than 12 passengers and which do not go to sea, and will be published jointly by the Maritime and Coastguard Agency and the Association of Inland Navigation Authorities.

That will do for the Solent then and a good thing too.

Regards
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Old 19 January 2004, 22:42   #57
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Coding/PB Trainers

I agree that MCA Coding is the way to go. So long as the rib has been built to a good standard, I have not really come across many problems with getting a rib coded.
Excellent idea the pre assessment day for PB Trainers. I attended one local to me at the end of last year and it was interesting to see that another person who was on the pre assessment day was an PB Advanced Instructor who had not ever done a day skipper theory and hence struggled with the navigation test paper which was given to us.
So the pre assessment days certainly do their job of ensuring that only those who have sufficient knowledge and powerboat handling skills get onto the actual course when we can learn the art of teaching instructors rather than 4 days of "back to basics".
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Old 10 July 2004, 09:49   #58
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RIB Chartering latest

It seams to be a popular thread regarding Chartering. Paul, Im pleased to see that someone else has attempted to sort out all the varying rules and regs that the different Local Aurthorities have set out. Also that you have notice our web site specialising in RIB hire, If I could however just update this info as the URL is www.spareribs.info and the costs of advertising and using SpareRIBs' resources are now totally restructured and below £50 a year.

Within this site we have spent alot of time tring to put an overview at least to how Coding your Charter RIB in the UK is done, paying particular attention to the operating areas. Should anyone have the time we would be only too pleased to recieve constructive critsisum. This is a slightly less greyer area than it used to be, however, as alot is open to interpretation everyone seams to be under a slightly different understanding.

Looking forward to your coments.

Andy
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Old 12 July 2004, 11:51   #59
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For those of you thinking about this I have to say that Andy is one of the good guys and a pleasure to deal with!
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