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Old 15 October 2010, 03:13   #21
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With you and Rick at the Helm, everyone got a first class ride every time!

Even with the suspention seats, I would retain the present layout, but that may remain a pipe dream for a while at least, price has to become more realistic
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Old 15 October 2010, 03:48   #22
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Thanks for all the replies.
Looks like its a toss up between Xcraft and Scot seats then..

Tony
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Old 15 October 2010, 04:01   #23
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Originally Posted by Xcraft View Post
retail prices:

X-Craft comfort seat: 2175 GBP
X-Craft comfort plus (hydraulicaly adjustable): 2340 GBP
That's alot of s no matter how you look at it.
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Old 15 October 2010, 05:58   #24
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Thanks for all the replies.
Looks like its a toss up between Xcraft and Scot seats then..

Tony
Try before you buy.
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Old 15 October 2010, 08:34   #25
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Suspension seats

that just what i'm gonna do next week. as far as i know and have compaired, x-craft isn't that expensive at all. competitors are even more expensive... however i will make a seatrial myselve.
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Old 15 October 2010, 11:55   #26
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that just what i'm gonna do next week. as far as i know and have compaired, x-craft isn't that expensive at all. competitors are even more expensive... however i will make a seatrial myselve.
It would be fantastic if you could share your results..
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Old 15 October 2010, 13:12   #27
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Good God, if the new anti-vibration legislation forces companies to have these seats, a) you will be a rich man and/or b) all commercial RIBs will be finished!

So for me that would be 14 x 2175= 30450 ....
Would you actually need them for the passengers or just the crew? Assuming the legislation is to protect workers from long term exposure then:-
a, the passengers aren't employees & may not be covered by the legislation
b, the passengers wouldn't be subject to long term exposure.

We have HAV (Hand Arm Vibration)limits for tools & equipment, the limits are based on daily exposure, a "one off" exposure wouldn't register. You're more likely to be sued by a passenger for a whiplash injury or similar due to being jarred in the rough rather than a vibration injury which occurs over time & repeated exposure. If the legislation does cover passengers, then theme parks can look out!!
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Old 15 October 2010, 14:06   #28
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Would you actually need them for the passengers or just the crew? Assuming the legislation is to protect workers from long term exposure then:-
a, the passengers aren't employees & may not be covered by the legislation
b, the passengers wouldn't be subject to long term exposure.
as I understand it the regulations are enforced under the Health and Safety at Work Act - which applies to employees and others who may be affected by your opperation. Accordingly they will be covered. However you are correct passengers won't be subject to continual exposure so may have lower risk - however consider the following factors:

(i) how would you feel as a paying passenger realising that the crew are better protected than you
(ii) shock loads are normally worse the further forward you are - on most commercial vessels the crew sit at the back (in the comfiest spot), There are good reasons for this - but it will also reduce their exposure.
(iii) is it a good idea for the guy with the throttle to be on a much more comfortable / shock mitigating seat? will he be as aware how his driving style is affecting passenger comfort / safety

Quote:
We have HAV (Hand Arm Vibration)limits for tools & equipment, the limits are based on daily exposure, a "one off" exposure wouldn't register. You're more likely to be sued by a passenger for a whiplash injury or similar due to being jarred in the rough rather than a vibration injury which occurs over time & repeated exposure.
its not the low amplitude high frequency vibration that shock mitigation seats are designed to reduce - it is the high impact low frequency events (covered by the same regulations) - and musculoskeletal injuries are exactly the sort of problem they aim to prevent.

Quote:
If the legislation does cover passengers, then theme parks can look out!!
The legislation will cover theme parks. But a theme park is actually a highly predictable and controllable situation. There is normally no human factor (driver) in determining the "impact" level and no variable sea state either.

Whilst there is obviously a market for Shock Mitigation Seats for people who must go to sea in poor weather; the argument is not so convincing for a typical sea safari type business where they typically won't go out in poor conditions. There might be a market for a relatively low cost sensor/logging system which proved that the shock levels were OK.
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Old 15 October 2010, 18:24   #29
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(i) how would you feel as a paying passenger realising that the crew are better protected than you
That's usually the case any way, the crew are doing it day in, day out & I would expect them to have better/personal gear(ii) shock loads are normally worse the further forward you are - on most commercial vessels the crew sit at the back (in the comfiest spot), There are good reasons for this - but it will also reduce their exposure.
again, better for the crew when exposed to day to day exposure
(iii) is it a good idea for the guy with the throttle to be on a much more comfortable / shock mitigating seat? will he be as aware how his driving style is affecting passenger comfort / safety
the punters are usually out for the adrenaline ride & are expecting to be bumped about & maybe get a tad damp, caveat emptor. Again, it's the crew that are being subject to the repeat exposure & need protecting. Unless we know what the exposure limits & definitions are in the regs, we are plaiting fog.
This might help .
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Old 16 October 2010, 07:45   #30
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There is a bit of background information here:

http://www.highspeedcraft.org/HSC_HF...Guide_v1.0.pdf

Page 38 onwards covers boat motions.

Commercial operators have a duty of care to their customers as well as their employees. A lot of customers may never have been on a RIB or other high speed craft - it is not really fair to expect them to assess the risk, particularly if the operator's advertising states that the rib trip is suitable for all, as many do.

I haven't looked into the figures myself, but from those that have I understand that in moderate conditions you may reach the daily limit in a matter of minutes and in extreme conditions (where to be fair a rib trip is unlikely to operate) it comes down to a matter of seconds.

Polwart's point with regard to the drawbacks of giving the crew shock mitigation seats is a good one - there is anecdotal evidence of crew inadvertently driving boats harder due to a lower perception of conditions and boat motions, although this again may not be relevant to the sort of conditions a RIB ride would operate in.

Cheers

Chris
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