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Old 25 March 2003, 12:18   #1
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Rules

Getting ready for the summer and I was going through the Greek Coastguard rulebook about safety gear on boats (of any kind inc RIBs).

Here it is:

SAFETY GEAR Requirements in Greece FOR ANY TYPE OF CRAFT

Approved life raft (open type) for 5 people fixed at a visible position aft
Horseshoe with buoy of an approved type and 15 mtrs rope fixed at a visible position aft
Blow horn manual
VHF portable
Radio with batteries
Standard manual inflated approved life jackets 50, or 100, or 150, or 275 the number of which should be equal to the permissible number of persons on the licence of the boat plus one
A 7 ltrs baler with 10 mtrs rope attached
Set of oars of sufficient length for the boat
Towing rope of 30 mtrs
Additional ropes 2 x 30 mtrs 14mm diameter
Knife
Handheld compass,
Watertight flashlight,
Up to date charts of the attended area,
Whistle
1st aid kit
A line of an anchor attached minimum weight 12 kgs, with 8 meters chain of min 8mm, and 30 meters of rope of min 14mm,
3 red parachute flares
3 red hand held flares
2 red smoke flares
Spare engine if cruising over 3 miles of the nearest coast

The people fllow in the sea behind!! LOLOL

Aren't you lucky in the UK with no regulations what so ever??
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Old 25 March 2003, 14:11   #2
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Re: Rules

Quote:
Originally posted by Manos
Aren't you lucky in the UK with no regulations what so ever??
- They will come soon I'm sure. To be honest, probably no bad thing I reckon. The mandatory items for Greece are sensible, although oars AND spare engine? And what's an "approved open life raft"?
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Old 25 March 2003, 14:20   #3
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Re: Re: Rules

Quote:
Originally posted by Pepper
And what's an "approved open life raft"?
Will take a photo of mine tmo am and will post it to see. Is nothing like you think and you may have a laugh abou it!!
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Old 25 March 2003, 16:05   #4
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I was out on my Avon on Sunday and as usual saw the powerboat/cabin cruiser brigade out with their 45k boats and the even more expensive totties and not a life jacket between them. at least twenty boats like this. I also saw a small RIB (Avon 4mtr)
with a dad and two kids under 10. The kids had lifejackets on but not the Dad sensible.

I for one would like to see Mandatory safety regulations and safety equipment carried on boats so I applaud the Greek manifest. I am not sure about the liferaft but I guess it would come in handy in case of Fire. Or for the odd Sib challenge.
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Old 25 March 2003, 16:42   #5
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Yeah, I agree that getting a liferaft is a bit on the extreme side..... it's almost erring to the side of commercial craft with that kind of requirement, but it's all in the name of safety I guess.

I do wonder however if having a sib on board would count as a liferaft though..... one of the things I was looking at was getting a sib, which I could blow up from 12 volt electrics on the boat. Could land the boat on the beach then, drop off the folks on board, back out, drop anchor, and then row in on the sib, thus reducing risk of getting the rib stuck on the beach on an outward tide

There are way too many people about on the river here though that do not wear lifejackets, which is kinda annoying when you see them going bombing past at 45 knots

-Alex
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Old 25 March 2003, 16:45   #6
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Sib with an engine. 2 birds, 1 stone.

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Old 26 March 2003, 00:19   #7
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The approved type life raft

This is what the regs mean with the phrase 'type approved liferaft'
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Old 26 March 2003, 01:15   #8
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OK, cheers Manos. That sort of gives us a clue. I hate to sound ungrateful, as I know that you're the one running around here taking photos and getting info and stuff, but that just looks like an orange rectangular package

We need to know what it looks like when deployed

There's only one thing for it - you'll have to go and inflate it and send us another picture

Go on - you know you want to see if it works
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Old 26 March 2003, 02:53   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by THEWAVEHUMPER
I was out on my Avon on Sunday and as usual saw the powerboat/cabin cruiser brigade out with their 45k boats and the even more expensive totties and not a life jacket between them. at least twenty boats like this.
Do you wear a parachute when travelling by airliner ?
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Old 26 March 2003, 03:51   #10
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Hello, Dirk's off again-this should be fun.

I am strongly against regulation. There is a huge diference between being sensible and making laws about it. If you don't want to be sensible then it is you who will suffer. If you dont want to be sensible then also accept the consequences and don't moan about it.
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Old 26 March 2003, 03:53   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dirk Diggler
Do you wear a parachute when travelling by airliner ?
Not sure that would go doen too well with the cabin crew! I've taken a parachute in my hand luggage before, and that got them nervous enough. They looked even less keen when they saw I was sitting by the emergency exit (for the extra leg room of course )

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Old 26 March 2003, 04:45   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by John Kennett
...parachute in my hand luggage...I was sitting by the emergency exit
- So did you jump?
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Old 26 March 2003, 05:18   #13
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I think that what made the cabin crew even more nervous, was whenever they leant over John, to pour his coffee, all they could hear him muttering was:
"One thousand
Two thousand
Three thousand
Check canopy!"
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Old 26 March 2003, 06:42   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pepper
We need to know what it looks like when deployed
It is rectangular floating thing. It has handles on all 4 sides and you suppose to deploy it in case your boat is in GRAVE PERIL i.e. sinking.
It does not inflate and is very light. when it goes in the water you suppose to jump and grab one of the handles so that you keep afloat.
I store it under the back of the rear seat on the Falcon with 20 mtr rope attached to it and a dry bag with some gear i.e. WP torch and VHF, knife, 2 handheld red flares, some food in packs, a whistle and a compass.
Hope this is clear now.
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Old 26 March 2003, 07:26   #15
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Hi folks

This is quite interesting Manos, what size of boat does that list cover.

Many of the items are what as I would call just sensible, but some appear a bit restrictive, the anchor for example 12Kg is quite big, I am only planning on carrying a 10Kg on my 7.8m, and on the 4.8 it was only 5Kg.

Also the list is very specific, ie if you have a fixed VHF do you still ned a portable ?.

I am not sure about regulation in the UK, it has its good and bad points. What I would like to see is when people do get into trouble, when it could have CLEARLY been avoided by carrying and knowing how to use saftey equipment, which could be resonably be expected to be carried, be fined or charged the costs incured in saving them.
The hard but it deciding the CLEARLY avoided and resonably be expected to be carried.

Maybe the first step is a "recomended" list similar to what Manon has listed, but once you have a fixed list, while this may suite people it does restrict people using common sence in what kit to carry, better alternatives etc.

And on a final point, you can carry all the kit in the world and still not have a clue how to use it or the boat !!.

Regards Gary
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Old 26 March 2003, 07:30   #16
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I am strongly against regulation.

Sorry Brian,

I totally disargree with on this, why should our emegency services put themselves at risk because some prat could not be bothered to wear a lifejacket or had one bottle of wine to many to care.

Every year lives are lost because of the "It can't happen to me" syndrome.

If you have ever seen the look on a parents, relative or friends face when you have to tell them there loved one is dead because he/she was not wearing a lifejacket. Or little Johny was playing in his rubber dingy close to the shore. Or he/she only slipped. But I am a strong swimmer. It has all been said before, and dare I say will be said again this year.

If people cannot decide for themselves then the option should be made for them.

Would you still drive a car without wearing a seatbelt?

I hope I have not P****d you off but thats how I feel.

Regards
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Old 26 March 2003, 08:00   #17
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It is peoples own choice but I have a rule that every one on my boat or that i take on the water has to ware a lifejacket at all times. This includes walking on the pontoon. More people drown in mariners than they do in open water.
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Old 26 March 2003, 08:13   #18
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Hi GarryGee

The list covers all types of pleasure craft from a 2mtr dingy to 15 mtr motorcruiser.
However, if the boat is not going to sail more than 3 miles of the closest land then you do not have to carry

1. the spare engine
2. the liferaft

If the boat is less than 5 mtrs and does not sail over 3 miles away from the closest land you do not have to carry the horsesue either. Also the anchore weight for <5 mtrs boat is 6 kgs.
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Old 26 March 2003, 08:20   #19
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AY
You make a number of points. But to the first-"why should our emergency services" etc.
Answer-because they are either paid to or volunteer for?

DGPW
I too always wear a lifejacket and insist that my crew do too. Thats what I call being sensible.

My point is trying to turn this lot into LAW is a nightmare.
Life is inherantly full of risk. Will you ban people from hill-walking, rock climbing, camping in the Cairngorms etc. unless they have passed a test, been on a course, are carrying 200lbs. of "mandatory" equipment and have their own personal doctor following them "just in case"?
Of course not.
I am a supporter of the "recommended" list of things to do/not to do and good old peer pressure.
The PC brigade can go and get stuffed as far as I am concerned.
(Sallright AY-you didn't p** me off, at all )
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Old 26 March 2003, 08:42   #20
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Firstly, I'm going to make it clear that I am totally for regulation, as long as it isn't stupidly restrictive.

However, very few items on that list would prevent the need for a lifeboat to be called out in the case of an emergency.

Personally I think it's more a case of the training should be mandatory, rather than safety gear. After all, through education you would hpefully realise that safety gear is essential. Have an accident on the road and it's discovered you don't have a license, you're in trouble, ideally it should be the same in our countries waters. Something along the lines of a fine, paid directly to the RNLI station responsible for saving your life...

But as people have said in previous threads, and I fully agree, enforcing such regulation would be nigh on impossible.

And why would you piss anyone off Aging Youth? This is a place created for us to share our opinions and discuss them, not to say "what I say is the final word". Provides interesting reading!

Cheers
Matt
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