loose jockey seat

[ciaranp]

One the of double jockey seats on my rib is loose and moving.
It was never bolted down.

Is there resin or whats the easiest way of securing to the deck without drilling and bolting?

[BruceB]

Generally Humber fittings are screwed and glued to the deck. Stainless screws go through the lip round the seat with sikafix or similiar all around the flange to seal and hold the seat on.
What like is the deck underneath the seat? There is no way under the deck to bolt through in any case unless you start putting hatches in.........

[ciaranp]

Originally Posted by BruceB

Generally Humber fittings are screwed and glued to the deck. Stainless screws go through the lip round the seat with sikafix or similiar all around the flange to seal and hold the seat on.
What like is the deck underneath the seat? There is no way under the deck to bolt through in any case unless you start putting hatches in.........

The jockey in front has screws through the lip or edge of jockey to screw it to deck.
i will get self tapping stainless screw.any idea the size these screws should be or best size?

[PeterR]

Why not remove one out of the other seat to attain the correct size.When fitting the new ones yo will need to pillot drill the deck and drill the seat flang the size of the shank/screw

[Ian M]

Have you spoken to Humber about this? It really should not happen, it is a potential killer.
There was a thread on here recently about seat pods on a RIB becoming detached and ejecting the crew into the Thames! http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread.php?t=22460

[ciaranp]

I'm thinking about drilling a small pilot hole and using a few 1 1/4" Stainless self tappers (contcted humber and thats what they use )and washers on the flange and then sealing off the screw holes and around the jockey with silicone.
I have sikaflex also but just in case i ever decide to move the seat i decided not to use it.

There is enough holes in the flange of the jockey for 10 + self tappers.

Will this method hold it?

[Cypman]

Put silicone into each screw hole and all along the undrneath of the flange before positining and screwing down. Don't drill your pilot holes too small or you will crack and split the fibreglass gel-coat; though not too big or the screws won't hold!!! Regarding how many to use, I consider for a secure fix you need to space the screws circa 10cm to 15cm apart.

[ciaranp]

Originally Posted by Cypman

Put silicone into each screw hole and all along the undrneath of the flange before positining and screwing down. Don't drill your pilot holes too small or you will crack and split the fibreglass gel-coat; though not too big or the screws won't hold!!! Regarding how many to use, I consider for a secure fix you need to space the screws circa 10cm to 15cm apart.

What size hole or drill size would you recommened for the 1 1/4" self tappers?
Theres loads of holes for the screws the whole way round the flange so maybe screw every 2nd one.

I was onto humber today and they said silicone with the screws wasn't enough ,they said to use sikaflex. Don't know what to do now wheather to use sikaflex or not? If i ever want to move the seat sikaflex will be a problem to get off.

If i use sikaflex what is the correct way to apply?
1. add sikaflex to the deck right around and then sit the flange and jockey down on it, then drill pilot holes put a bit of sikaflex in holes and screw in tappers.
or
2. add sikaflex to the bottom of jockey flange all way around then place jockey down on deck, drill pilot holes, screw in.

do you add sikaflex the whole way around or just in cornors or patches?

[PeterR]

I would suggest the holes through the jockey seat need to be large enough for the screw to fit into neatly to find this size drill into another bit of waist ali or wood.The pilot hole needs to be slightly smaller than the thread but large than the core or shank.Do one hole and see if you can screw it in with out it getting to tight.You need to clean the surfaces thougherly and bond the seat to the deck then drill your holes and screw down the seat and clean off extra stikflex.

[PeterR]

Add stikaflex all the way round to the deck using the marks you put before you removed the seat to clean the bottom edge/flang

[Cypman]

I think I used a 4mm or 4.5mm drill, measure the diameter of the shank (without the threads) of your screw and use a drill of that diameter or 0.5mm smaller. Try on a scrap piece of plywood to check if the right size, the screw should be quite difficult to screw in!!!
To install the seat, assuming there are no holes already in the boat floor, position the seat in the required location and drill the four corner holes. Install four screws loosely into these holes the hold the seat in position and then drill all the other holes. Only drill the holes deep enough for the screws being utilised, ideally using a stop on the drill. Once all the holes are drilled remove the seat and clean the area thoroughly, and the base of the seat.
Inject sicaflex in all the holes in the floor/deck and then join all the holes with a generous line of the sealant so that there is a continuous seal around the location.
Place the seat carefully on the sealant ,locating it with a couple of screws at opposite corners. Finally, screw in all the screws (with large washers) and clean any sicaflex that has been displaced from under the seat.
If there are loads of holes already drilled in the floor it is probable that the original holes were drilled too large and the screws have pulled out. If this is the case you can use these holes with larger diameter screws and washers. However, you would have to enlarge the corresponding holes in the seat base to accomodate the fatter screws. Hope this helps.

[ciaranp]

Originally Posted by Cypman

I think I used a 4mm or 4.5mm drill, measure the diameter of the shank (without the threads) of your screw and use a drill of that diameter or 0.5mm smaller. Try on a scrap piece of plywood to check if the right size, the screw should be quite difficult to screw in!!!
To install the seat, assuming there are no holes already in the boat floor, position the seat in the required location and drill the four corner holes. Install four screws loosely into these holes the hold the seat in position and then drill all the other holes. Only drill the holes deep enough for the screws being utilised, ideally using a stop on the drill. Once all the holes are drilled remove the seat and clean the area thoroughly, and the base of the seat.
Inject sicaflex in all the holes in the floor/deck and then join all the holes with a generous line of the sealant so that there is a continuous seal around the location.
Place the seat carefully on the sealant ,locating it with a couple of screws at opposite corners. Finally, screw in all the screws (with large washers) and clean any sicaflex that has been displaced from under the seat.
If there are loads of holes already drilled in the floor it is probable that the original holes were drilled too large and the screws have pulled out. If this is the case you can use these holes with larger diameter screws and washers. However, you would have to enlarge the corresponding holes in the seat base to accomodate the fatter screws. Hope this helps.

thanks for that. there was no screws when i got it. looks to me like it was glued down.

does the sikaflex cure fast or how long does it take ? do i have much time to work with it?
how difficult is it to remove if ever wanted to?

[walruz]

As long as you get the sealant and not the adhesive it does just that seals but is easy to remove in the future. You have quite a while to work with it and I personally would prefer to keep it dry for 24 hrs before immersion. If it's on the deck as in your case less than that should be fine.

Just watch tho' it is sticky stuff if it gets on your clothes while fresh out of the tube.

Ian

[ciaranp]

Originally Posted by walruz

As long as you get the sealant and not the adhesive it does just that seals but is easy to remove in the future. You have quite a while to work with it and I personally would prefer to keep it dry for 24 hrs before immersion. If it's on the deck as in your case less than that should be fine.

Just watch tho' it is sticky stuff if it gets on your clothes while fresh out of the tube.

Ian

So how do you know which silaflex is adhesive and which is sealent?
does the sealent act as any bit of adhesive ? its just like ordinary silcone?
again would the sealent just with screws be enogh?

[Julian]

Hi,

We removed our seats last season to remove a spare fuel tank so we have done this excersise.

without a doubt use adhesive sikaflex, the seat pods take a huge strain through the season and screws with normal sealant will not hold them in place

The last thing you want is the seat pod detaching from the deck in the rough.

We cut the sikaflex of the old seats so you can remove them it just takes a bit of time.

Hope that helps

Julian

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by ciaranp

I have sikaflex also but just in case i ever decide to move the seat i decided not to use it.

I agree completely with Julian on this one.

Don't be deceived by looks. When seats are apparently held in place with self tappers, it should actually be the Sikaflex adhesive that is providing the holding power. Screws alone, or screws plus sealant, are not sufficient.

You certainly wouldn't be the first to make this mistake and it would probably be fine for a while -- but it's asking for trouble in the long run.

John

[ciaranp]

ok silaflex adhesive it is so with the self tappers. Silaflex the whole way around?
Do it as Cypman said...

[BruceB]

Phone Humber and get them to fax out the single sheet instructions for installing consoles/seats.
It gives all the details of materials and methods but basically it is SS self tappers at small intervals and sikafix adhesive to seal/hold.
I am sure if you called they would fax the instruction sheet out to you.

[RichardB]

Originally Posted by ciaranp

ok silaflex adhesive it is so with the self tappers. Silaflex the whole way around?
Do it as Cypman said...

Might also be worth your while masking off 2"-3" of the deck with wide masking tape around the joint area really close up to where the joint will be (e.g. leave no more than 5mm gap to where the joint will be). Also, similarly mask the bottom of the vertical plinth of the seat. Then, when you squeeze out most of the adhesive during the screwing down you can wipe excess from the fillet without spreading it everywhere. Makes cleaning up somewhat easier - that Sikaflex has a tendancy to get everywhere (especially if you are a little over-liberal in the initial application).

[ciaranp]

hopefully going to secure the double jockey to the deck this week.
Have 1 1/4 " ss self tapers and a tube of sikaflex.
Are the 1 1/4" tappers ok? Have washers also to put between screw head and seat flange.
painting the deck then after with international interdeck paint.