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Old 17 April 2003, 18:18   #1
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Fuel fillers

I could do with your suggestions please guys.
Where have you found the best place to sight a fuel filler for under deck tanks? Bearing in mind ease of filling, slippery deck, diesely fumes while eating the picnic etc., etc.
Ta.
JW.
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Old 17 April 2003, 20:22   #2
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JW we got them set in the transom with filters.I will get you a pic if you want. A mate of mine is saying that a 4 inch Filler is his prefered size So as to take commercial pipe if offshore.

I have also been advised that 2 inch is fine as you also need aprox 50 % for a breather so ideal would be 2 inch with a 1 inch breather pipe.

They recon that 4 inch with a commercial hose could blow your tanks?,Ok if your filling big gals Tanks, but not needed for 2x125g size tanks.Pressure tested at 5 psi.

We have now decided on 2 inch with 1 inch breather pipe Fillers set in the Transom.
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Old 18 April 2003, 02:20   #3
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JW, the original filler point for the single tank on Magellan Alpha was inside the engine box on the forward bulkhead. This was very easy to use and kept mess and fumes away from living areas

The filler pipe opening was also set into a box of it's own where the the breather pipe also led. This meant that any blow back or overfill went into the box and drained back into the filler pipe. This was a good place to store rags as well. It was neat set-up and I liked it a lot. Unfortunately it had to go when I installed the bigger engine and need the space.

Now I have two filler pipes and both are on deck with their vents. They can be messy alongside the commercial fuel barge in Falmouth when there is a bit of a sea running.

Both are 2 inch pipes and one fills fast and the other slowly. The superiority of the fast one is down to the fact that the breather pipe is better. It is short and rises all the way from the tank and there is no chance of a sump blockage at any stage.

With the original breather pipe I have done my best to vent it vertically but it has a levelish stretch in the middle and it gets filled with diesel foam and slows the whole process down.

If I were doing it again from scratch I would go for:

1 the widest, shortest pipes I could install.
2 a closable overflow box with each filler point.

Hope those ideas are of some interest.
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Old 18 April 2003, 16:34   #4
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Thanks CH & MG.
I don't know anything about the 4" pipe CH. The tanker that delivers my home central heating oil connects via a 60mm thread. It may actually be an old thread because 60mm is almost exactly 2 & 3/8". It's likely that a harbourside tanker would use this connector.

Mike, thanks for you comments. What you used to have is exactly what I was planning but I had a reservation about the bow end of the tank being higher than the stern and, therefore, a large air pocket would form and prevent complete filling. Your tank/deck must have been almost parallel to the water surface. Yes?

Cheers, JW.
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Old 18 April 2003, 17:11   #5
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Eve folks

Each of our tanks have there own seperate fillers and our friends who has 5 tanks and swears by the 4 inch fillers also has seperate fillers for each tank.They are then linked with pumps and a shut off valves and breather for each.If the bow tank wanted to be filled then if filled directly from its own filler, I fail to see how providing the breather works how it will air lock? If your suggesting filling all tanks from a single point other than the higher bow tank, then I fail to see how each tank will fill correctly from a single point as the bow tank is higher?
I would recommend each tank have its own filler and shut off tap and breather.

This my take on the situation if I have missed something out feel free to let me know.
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Old 19 April 2003, 02:23   #6
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JW - a quick pic will cut down on my words...the explanation in the post that follows.
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Old 19 April 2003, 02:47   #7
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A Quick Pic...

Tank 3 was the original. It fills and vents via a pipe that is connected to the aft end of the tank. I have not been able to open up the floor to get at this tank (bad design!) so I am not exactly sure why it is so difficult to fill.

My two new tanks (1 & 2) are linked by a 2" tube and I fill the front one while No 2 vents. It is very quick. However, it would have been better to fill No 1 from the forward end to prevent an air pocket but I have managed to fill almost exactly 400 litres into them and they are supposed to be 200 each, so suspect there is no air pocket.

But I do agree with you. I would put the filler and vents at any obvious high point where the boat lies at rest.

Incidently, tanks 1 and 2 have a feed to the engine from the aft end of two. (Actually there are two feeds from 2 - one from the port side and one from the starboard to take account of the fact that the base of tank two is saddled to take the keelson. The amount of fuel left on either side when the tank is almost empty is my emergency reserve!)

Tank 3 is effectively the day tank and is the only one that has a return. I use this tank until it is less than half full then switch to the forward tanks. When tank 3 is almost refilled by the return I switch back to tank 1 and 2 for the supply.

This has the advantage of keeping the boat trim fairly constant. The downside is that you have to keep an eye on the guage that is attached to tank 3. On one notable occasion soon after I had installed the set up and was sleeping off my French lunch while Mrs G drove me back across the Channel to Falmouth, I had failed to explain it all to her.

I awoke to a furious driver who had eventually spotted the cockpit was awash with diesel fountaining out of the aft tank breather pipe! Grrrr!
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Old 19 April 2003, 05:00   #8
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Re: A Quick Pic...

Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Garside
I awoke to a furious driver who had eventually spotted the cockpit was awash with diesel fountaining out of the aft tank breather pipe! Grrrr!
How did that get past the RCD Crazyhorse?
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Old 19 April 2003, 05:37   #9
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Mike,
If your tank "straddles" the keel and so needs two outlets to retrieve the fuel in these two seperate areas (when the level drops below the centre hump) if for some reason one of the feeds is a little easier to draw from than the other (which it probably is), this side will empty first and begin to draw air, whilst the other side would still contain fuel, would it not!
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Old 19 April 2003, 06:49   #10
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Well on the RCD question,I believe that both boats havent got RCD catergories for offshore use eg cat B. Mikes was built before 1998 so doesnt need to comply,but should get it quite easily as it will have a very good angle of vanishing stability,but depending on where the first downflooding point is, it may need alteration to the engine box or hull openings, whichever starts to fill first before aprox 5o% of tilt. JW isnt interested in RCD cat B build regs,and even if he were then it is doughtfull if your building withought any regard to them at this stage that it will get a cat B status withought a lot of modifications /changes afterwards and subsequent costs. On the fuel regs for RCD as our builders havnt installed the system yet but have signed a contract,to say that it will comply to the minimum standards required for fuel instalations for offshore use commercialy/work boat code, and RCD,Which includes fire resistant blurb/and pressure testing ect.I dont know exactly what the regs are at this stage for RCD compliance on fuel tanks instalations, but will be doing it in the next three months as far as fuel tanks and breathers and fillers and shut off valves and fire resistance of hoses go. Its a real ball ache complying but in the long term,I am of the belief that it will pay off one day as some of the RCD regs are there to make a boat by design more safer.I MHO
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