FC470 help

[buckley470]

Bought a used Zodiac FC470, hypalon, navy surplus, 90's model, NAVICP. Took it out the first time, did a few hard turns and here is the aftermath. Apparently, I didn't inspect the boat well enough. At a loss of what to do. How would you guys go about fixing this? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

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[buckley470]

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[buckley470]

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[buckley470]

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[buckley470]

Sorry, I had trouble uploading the photos. Here they are.

[TheMadMariner]

Wow mate, that's a real shame, i love those FC's just by the look of it.
First of all, I've never done a repair on the bottomside of the dingy, so I don't know if this is even repairable.
Normal repair procedure would be:

1) Decrease with a solvent (I use thinner)
2) Remove all old glue by grinding. (don't get all the way to the canvas underneath)
3) Decrease again before applying the adhesive.
4) Get yourself a two component adhesive for hypalon.
5) Wait for a good summer day.
6) Stick to manufracturer instructions
7) Ensure a stable weather conditon in order to get a good bond.

Then again, if the hypalon material is torn in anyway, that's another story; it means getting rid of that section and glue a new one.

[kelson]

Well, That certainly looks disheartening. There are a lot of surplus FC's for sale in CA right now. Most are in pretty bad shape. Heat and age have weakened the glue bonds. The thick deposit of glue on the speed tube seams is from poorly made repairs. My PVC Futura had similar issues. The PO layered glue upoun glue. The two part glue does not bond to old glue. The thick deposit is hard to remove using heat or solvents. I recommend dremel abrasive wheels. Slow work becuase the wheels are small, but there is less chance of further damaging the material.

The floor seams look like they are just coming apart and should be easier to work with since there isn't so much glue deposition. You do need to work all of the floor seam apart that will separate without damaging the surface layer of the material. I did not remove my entire floor as some recommended. The sections with good bonds have not failed yet and it has been almost 5 years. However, if it will come apart, pull it apart. I fill my boat with a couple of inches of water and check for leaks once a year.

Whether the boat is worth repairing is a personal decision. My Futura needed extensive repair including rebonding much of the transom. I took my time (never overlapping repairs until the underlying glue job was cured) and put a lot of effort into it. If you have the time and the skill repairing seams and holes will give you a reliable boat.

This is the type of abrasive wheel I used.

Prepped to glue the floor seam.

Old layered glue is a pain to remove, but glue does not stick to old glue.

You have to do whatever it takes so that repairs lay down nicely, no tension on the material! It is a one shot process with no adjustments. This pucker at the floor to tube to transom was difficult.

I let the boat get warm and then stretched it between my car and truck to get the pucker out.

Obviously, if you are going to do this much work you want it to last. Prep is everything! Buy a cheap hygrometer and watch the humidity. The two part glues are hygroscopic and moisture results in a much weaker bond. Don't rely on the weather report. Your immediate local conditions may vary significantly. As long as the material itself isn't breaking down anything can be repaired. It is just an issue of how much work it's worth for you to do it right.

Good luck!

[buckley470]

Kelson, thanks for the advice and pics. Much appreciated. You are the man.

MadMariner thanks too.

One question, for anyone, Once the rubbery surface material is ripped off or delaminated and the fabric threads are visible, its done for? Probably have to trim off the parts where the fabric threads are showing and patch with new hypalon???

[TheMadMariner]

Any strip that needs to be re-glued and where the canvas fabric is visible, is done for I'm afraid. The fabric just won't bond with the hypalon. That's also why you wanna be careful with the dremel on those sections where the hypalon might be thin.

As Kelson stated; it'll be one helluva job, but with his tips and some willpower, you should definatly take a try and go for it. Keep us informed!

[kelson]

I bought my boat knowing I would have to work on it. Turned out to be a bit more than I envisioned. Since you have a number of issues start with the easier, smaller and more manageable places first. Practice does help a lot.

The thick glue deposits, which is just plain wrong, works off in a wave of old glue.

If you are gluing seams that are not fully separated you will have cracks where the glue doesn't dry as fast whether you are gluing hypalon or pvc. You may not get good tackiness in the crevice. Even waiting and re activating the glue may leave places where you just don't get the initial bond you want. I use a little pressure and time and these problem places cure out fine. It isn't the ideal bond, but my floor repairs have lasted a long time. A practical tip. Here I'm placing light pressure on the back of the glued front section of my speed tube.

Same trick using pressure to re bond flaps on the transom material that had de bonded. Most of the repair tacks right down, it is just the tight joint that needs a little help.

Do whatever it takes to make it easy to lay the material being glued into position. I'll move the boat. Anything. Whatever it takes to make the repair straightforward.



Sometimes it is better to just move on. When I kept pulling apart my floor after I bought the boat I was bummed. But the Futura lived on to travel to mex and jump overhead waves off Point Loma. It was worth the time for me. PM me if you have specific questions.

[kelson]

Is it really impossible to get a good glue bond between a hypalon patch and the exposed inner hypalon fabric? I don't have as much experience with hypalon, but have bonded patches to chafed tubes on hypalon river rafts (they didn't look as bad as the 470 floor material).

I would clean off the floor material carefully and glue the speed tube case seams down. Any exposed hypalon exposed fabric that isn't covered should be patched or sealed with a liquid rubber coating like SRC. Maybe I've gotten away with this type of bond because they were just wear patches and not a structural bond like the speed tube seams are?

It appears in the pictures of the damage that the hypalon floor to tube seam is unbonded and the hypalon surface is intact. It is the speed tube casing to floor seam that is so bad. Will Buckley470 really have to replace the floor material and speed tube casing to get a good bond?

I get a good bond to small areas of damaged fabric on my PVC boat, but that is a different fabric material and not so extensively delaminated. Anyone have some recommendations?

[berat]

When i saw that i thouth mine is not very bad condition. How did you manage this problem. I have a similar problem but minor things. Kelson could you check the pictures links.

[cgoing]

Buckley- by the looks of the photos I am gonna go out on a limb and say that is not the first time that this happens on that boat. From the photos it looks like heavy glue in some areas as if a repair was previously done. Gonna be a very tough repair to attempt .

[jelwood]

You can sometimes get a good bond where it's gone down to the weave, just lightly sand it, wipe it down and then give it a priming coat of glue and leave it for a day or 2, then proceed as normal.

If it does hold but you're not 100% happy could always then run another strip over the top with a 1 inch overlap to hold it down

[Northern Pike]

I think if I were to tackle that job I would remove the speed tubes for good. You would still have a decent boat equivalent to a Classic or Grand Raid.