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Old 05 August 2006, 08:49   #211
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Originally Posted by gavin
I dont think the Falklands is a fair unbaised sample to use, the main reason Landrover is used apart from offroading, is a political reason , and an effort by the Islanders to support home grown industry, this is admirable, but not convincing.
I think that Landrover are enthuasist vehicles, most of my links are indeed from their enthausist sites, come on you dont buy a vehicle, then have to do a timing belt to cam gear train conversion, and not be an enthuasist.
No other brand or marque of vehicle has so much aftermarket spares, upgrades and mods, available to it.
The reason for this is simple, the stuff that rolled out of Longbridge needed this huge amount of changes, upgrades, and repairs to keep it going.
Wrong again I am afraid. Politics/loyalty has nothing to do with it - there are plenty of Jap vehicles coming in now, but they are mostly bought by people who don't venture off road much. It was only Friday I was talking to somebody whose daughters Mitsubishi had just exploded, and she wanted to know if I knew of any Land Rovers for sale because she wasn't having another Pajero under any circumstances!

I do agree that the Defender is an enthusiast vehicle - its easy to be enthusiastic about - but there are a lot of mainstream buyers who go for the other models because they offer a blend of qualities they like. I don't think it is fair to say that they need the upgrades to keep going - mostly its about improving the performance, hence the roof rack, winch, mud tyres, underbody armour etc fitted to mine. I'm afraid I haven't spend any money on fixing it! My father has two old Defenders, one 1986 and one 1987, which have been used off road all their life as working vehicles, and they have had no mechanical problems at all to my knowledge, even though the 90 has been drowned in a river to halfway up the windows at the back (oops that was my fault...), the gearbox was a bit sticky for a while after that and it took a year for the seat cushions to dry out properly, but that experience would have been terminal on just about anything else! The general mechanical reliability is not as good as something like Toyota but that doesn't mean they all break down as soon as it rains.... a lot of the problems come from people who buy a Land Rover (or indeed other 4x4s) and then fail to appreciate that it is more complicated and requires more maintenance. If you never change the gear oils and it never sees a grease gun, to then moan about it when it eventually breaks is hardly reasonable IMHO. But a lot of people do - because they wouldn't know preventative maintenance if they fell over it. I'd guess the same is probably true of boat owners, the ones who spend a bit of time tinkering are probably the ones who never need to call for help.

Longbridge - wrong company old chap
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Old 05 August 2006, 09:12   #212
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I have some very good friends in The Gambia - Sierra Leone - Zambia and Guinea-Bissau. They all LOVE Land Rovers. They also have plenty of Jap vehicles these days but they just can't take the 20 years plus of abuse they get in Africa. It is nothing to see 50 people hanging onto the back of a Landie - WAY over what they were designed for but they keep plodding on!!!
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Old 05 August 2006, 09:15   #213
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And talking of gearboxes - MANY probs have been caused by people sticking EP90 in the main gearbox - people still do it even now but the last LR to need it was the Series III which they stopped making in 1983. Then they wonder why the bearings pack up. Look after your Land Rover and it will look after you!!!
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Old 05 August 2006, 11:37   #214
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Solihull not Longbridge my mistake
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Old 05 August 2006, 11:51   #215
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Survey results

US J.D. Power and Associates Vehicle Dependability Survey for 2005 (published 8th July 2005) places the Land Rover marque last (Kia second last). This is the fourth year that it has been in the last or second to last place in the survey. This study was based on responses from more than 55,000 US based original owners of 2000 model year cars and light trucks at three years of ownership. [1] In 2004, it narrowly dethroned Kia, as the least reliable nameplate, but swapped places in 2005. (Kia last, Land Rover 2nd last).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover

On this page heading Quality problems

read for yourself the various survey results
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Old 05 August 2006, 15:37   #216
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Sorry, my mistake. I'm just off to throw both of mine in the skip now... since they both caught fire and burnt out this morning due to appalling unreliability of something or other.

Then I need to fit some wheelbarrow handles to the boat trailer so I can still go ribbing tomorrow
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Old 05 August 2006, 16:17   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin
US J.D. Power and Associates Vehicle Dependability Survey for 2005 (published 8th July 2005) places the Land Rover marque last (Kia second last). This is the fourth year that it has been in the last or second to last place in the survey. This study was based on responses from more than 55,000 US based original owners of 2000 model year cars and light trucks at three years of ownership. [1] In 2004, it narrowly dethroned Kia, as the least reliable nameplate, but swapped places in 2005. (Kia last, Land Rover 2nd last).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover

On this page heading Quality problems

read for yourself the various survey results

Wow thanks for that Gavin, had a good read of the article, I think you missed this bit-


Abilities
The use of Land Rovers by the UK and Commonwealth military as well as on long term civilian projects and expeditions is mainly due to the superior off-road performance of the marque. For example, the short wheelbase version of the Land Rover Defender is capable of tackling a gradient of 45 degrees, an approach angle of up to 50 degrees, a departure angle of 53 degrees and a ramp break-over of up to 155 degrees - greatly superior not just to urban 4x4s but to military vehicles such as the HMMWV and Pinzgauer High Mobility All-Terrain Vehicle. A distinctive feature of all Land Rover products has been their exceptional axle articulation (the degree to which the wheels have vertical travel, with high amounts allowing them to maintain contact (and traction) with the ground over uneven surfaces), which is currently 7 inches (178mm) at the front axle and 8.25 inches (210mm) at the rear on basic Defender models.


Safety
Road accident statistics on a model-by-model basis from the UK Department of Transport show that the Land Rover Defender and Land Rover Discovery are the safest cars on the UK roads (measured in terms of chance of death in an accident) - between three times safer than the safest Volvo models, twice as safe (half the death-rate per accident) compared with the Jeep Cherokee and Toyota Land Cruiser and only matched by the Mercedes-Benz S-Class and Jaguar XJ.


Crikey impressive stuff! surprised you linked to it Gavin
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Old 05 August 2006, 17:15   #218
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There is no doubt in my mind, or anywhere in this thread about the credibility of Landrover off road.I have never questioned it,I have no doubt they are formidible off road,

Once again, this thread is about their unrelilability............
Unfortunately this is where they fall down , no point having an off road vehicle , thats good, or great offroad, but lags behind in many other areas,

do you think its a fair statment ,out of 55000 vehicles tested

Landrover has come last or second last the past 4 years, or do you think that the US survey, isnt independant enough
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Old 05 August 2006, 18:18   #219
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Can only speak as find, not had 55,000 of them, but a fair share,

From freelanders, to current Range Rovers, had 1 fault, dead battery in a 14 month old discovery (replace warranty), have 3 at present from 12 months old to 20 years, no problem,

This thread is now boring !!
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Old 05 August 2006, 19:07   #220
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This thread is now boring !!
It is

And I didn't even read the first 150 odd replies

We should just accept that we are right and pray for the enlightenment of flawed souls, eh Tim?
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