Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 08 December 2012, 16:30   #1
Member
 
Country: Ireland
Town: Dublin & Enniscrone
Boat name: K'adů
Make: Redbay
Length: 7m +
Engine: Suzuki 300
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 613
hho Generator for frelander v6 2.5 petrol

guys

Has any one any experience with hho generators especially for the freelander v6 2.5 petrol.

Thks

Peter
__________________

__________________
Take it easy ....but, take it all the way.
Ezgoing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08 December 2012, 16:37   #2
RIBnet Supporter
 
willk's Avatar
 
Country: Ireland
Make: Redbay Boats
Length: 9m +
Engine: 370hp
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 13,816
RIBase
Linky

Snake Oil I'm afraid Peter...

__________________

__________________
willk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08 December 2012, 16:43   #3
Member
 
Leapy's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Sheepy Parva
Boat name: Sadly Sold
Length: no boat
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezgoing View Post
guys

Has any one any experience with hho generators especially for the freelander v6 2.5 petrol.

Thks

Peter
I'd've thought that with the weak head gaskets of this engine that the results could be, er, interesting.

Assuming there's anything in it, of course ;-)
__________________
Leapy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08 December 2012, 17:43   #4
RIBnet admin team
 
Nos4r2's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: The wilds of Wiltshire
Boat name: Dominator
Make: SR5.4
Length: 7m +
Engine: Yam 85
MMSI: 235055163
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,826
RIBase
It CAN'T work. It takes more energy to split water into hydrogen and oxygen than it makes when you burn hydrogen in oxygen to make water. It's a universal constant.
Unfortunately, it sounds plausable to the salesmen who sell it(who generally aren't bright enough to change a universal constant).
It's snake oil. If it worked, then it'd be fitted on new cars.
Same goes for magnets on fuel lines, tin mesh catalysts, etc...
__________________
Need spares,consoles,consumables,hire,training or even a new boat?

Please click HERE and HERE and support our Trade Members.

Join up as a Trade member or Supporter HERE
Nos4r2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08 December 2012, 19:40   #5
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Northampton
Make: RibTec
Length: 5m +
Engine: Outbaord mariner 75
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 506
Guys its really easy to make and they do work.

best to build it out of stainless.

mine is stainless steel tube with stainless mesh inside for the anode.

make quite alot of H2 and O.

and this is just a test unit running of the 12V of the car.

you just add the HH & O in to the air intakes. give much more mpg.
__________________
jezza2011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08 December 2012, 20:24   #6
RIBnet admin team
 
Poly's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: imposter
Make: FunYak
Length: 3m +
Engine: Tohatsu 30HP
MMSI: 235089819
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,034
Nos, Willk - you boys are clearly misleading the public with all your talk of snake oil and laws of thermodynamics... Jezza says he's made one himself and it works - so it must be true.

So Jezza can you explain how it works? I'm particularly interested in understanding:

* where the energy comes from to break the H-O-H bonds?
* presumably since you refer to anode and 12V this comes from the battery?
* where does the battery get its energy from?
* the alternator... ...which gets its energy from the engine.
* and the engine gets its energy from combustion. And the combustion of H2 produces exactly the same amount of energy as it takes to turn water into H2 and O2.
* so even if your process was 100% efficient it would result in no net gain, but charging batteries, alternators, combustion engines etc are all rather inefficient...

Now how much water do you put in? even if you could miraculously turn water to hydrogen at no energy cost, then 1L of water (1 kg) produces just (2/18 kg of H2), which will produce 123 * 2 / 18 MJ of heat... ...thats about the same as 1/3rd of a litre of petrol... Unless you are adding a lot of water (litres per trip) then a noticeable change is impossible.

Add that to the fact that your engine is optimised for burning petrol not hydrogen and without some significant retuning its not going to run efficiently on hydrogen.
__________________
Poly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16 December 2012, 17:44   #7
Member
 
Country: Ireland
Town: Dublin & Enniscrone
Boat name: K'adů
Make: Redbay
Length: 7m +
Engine: Suzuki 300
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 613
If ya think it is free energy then the idea is pure snake oil. Agreed.

However if you can add hho into the fuel mix with air and petrol it leads to a more efficient combustion and lowering of consumption.

I was just wondering if anyone had done it on the freelancer petrol.

What is this about weak gasket on landie?

Thks
__________________
Take it easy ....but, take it all the way.
Ezgoing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 December 2012, 18:17   #8
RIBnet admin team
 
Nos4r2's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: The wilds of Wiltshire
Boat name: Dominator
Make: SR5.4
Length: 7m +
Engine: Yam 85
MMSI: 235055163
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,826
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezgoing View Post
If ya think it is free energy then the idea is pure snake oil. Agreed.

However if you can add hho into the fuel mix with air and petrol it leads to a more efficient combustion and lowering of consumption.

I was just wondering if anyone had done it on the freelancer petrol.

What is this about weak gasket on landie?

Thks


At what point is what you said not describing free energy?

1) There is no such thing as HHO. It's a junk name invented by quacks.


2)IT TAKES MORE ENERGY TO SPLIT WATER INTO HYDROGEN AND OXYGEN THAN YOU GET BACK OUT BY BURNING IT BECAUSE YOUR CAR BATTERY CHARGING SYSTEM AND THE GAS GENERATOR CANNOT BE 100% EFFICIENT.
YOU CANNOT GET ROUND THIS.

3) If you really think this works then you give me a a tenner, I'll give you a five pound note and tell you you've saved some money. We can do that all day 'til you're bankrupt.


It's NOT rocket science.
__________________
Need spares,consoles,consumables,hire,training or even a new boat?

Please click HERE and HERE and support our Trade Members.

Join up as a Trade member or Supporter HERE
Nos4r2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 December 2012, 23:52   #9
Member
 
Leapy's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Sheepy Parva
Boat name: Sadly Sold
Length: no boat
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezgoing View Post
What is this about weak gasket on landie?
Google has the answer. The "Rover" 2.5 V6 is better than the "Rover" K series 1.8 4 pot but still no cigar. And by some margin.
__________________
Leapy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 December 2012, 02:43   #10
Member
 
Pikey Dave's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: South Yorks
Boat name: Black Pig
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: DF140a
MMSI: 235111389
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 9,393
RIBase
Gents, just playing devils advocate here, I'd never heard of "HHO, Browns gas" etc until this thread. Just supposing that:- the infernal combustion engine is notoriously in-efficient, around 20% IIRC. Lets say that adding some of the magic ingredient increased the efficiency of the fuel burn by a significant amount, which resulted in the engine producing more power per unit of petrol used. Not because of the energy from the HHO which we know has a net cost, but because the engine is now running more efficiently. So by adding the HHO which might "cost" 1% in fuel, we increase the efficiency of the engine by 10%, so the net gain is +ve. On an engine as poor at using fuel as a combustion engine, there are gains to be made.

Just my 2 penneth, could be total bollix, dunno!
__________________
Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
Rule#3: Tha' can't educate pork.
Rule#4:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y
Pikey Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 December 2012, 03:01   #11
Member
 
Leapy's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Sheepy Parva
Boat name: Sadly Sold
Length: no boat
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikey Dave View Post
... So by adding the HHO which might "cost" 1% in fuel, we increase the efficiency of the engine by 10% ...
That's where the logic falls down, PD. These figures fall into the summat fer nowt category.

Some years ago, BMW produced about a 100 'bivalent' 6.0litre V12 6 Series vehicles. They could run on hydrogen or petrol.

Running on pure petrol the vehicle did 20.3mpg on the urban cycle, running on hydrogen 5.6mpg. This correlates with the relative energy densities of the two fuels (34.6 v 10.1MJ/litre respectively). There was no engine power increase for running on hydrogen.
__________________
Leapy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 December 2012, 03:25   #12
Member
 
Festinghouse's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Chorley / Holyhead
Boat name: Northwind Challenger
Make: Tornado
Length: 6m +
Engine: Mariner 115 efi CT
MMSI: 235080598
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,408
RIBase
Send a message via Skype™ to Festinghouse
ive always understood that you cant create, or destroy energy, you can only transfer it one way or another. each time you do something with it there are losses in heat, sound, vibration you name it - all of which use some of the energy to create before that energy can be used for what you want.
im no scientist, but is it possible that this hho process is acting as a catalyst rather than a fuel?
oh, and just to correct a few people, rocket science is easy - its just fuel, ignition and thrust!
__________________
"Life may often suck, but the alternative is unacceptable"
MMSI Sticker

Member of S.A.B.S. (Lancashire Division)
Festinghouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 December 2012, 05:40   #13
Member
 
Pikey Dave's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: South Yorks
Boat name: Black Pig
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: DF140a
MMSI: 235111389
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 9,393
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by Festinghouse View Post
im no scientist, but is it possible that this hho process is acting as a catalyst rather than a fuel?
My point exactly, the additional energy from the hydrogen is negligible & costs, but just maybe it acts in the petrol reaction to make it more efficient. Not so much a case of something for nothing, more a case of making better use of what you've got. In a machine as inefficient as the ICE there has to be huge potential for efficiency savings.
__________________
Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
Rule#3: Tha' can't educate pork.
Rule#4:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y
Pikey Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 December 2012, 07:46   #14
RIBnet admin team
 
Nos4r2's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: The wilds of Wiltshire
Boat name: Dominator
Make: SR5.4
Length: 7m +
Engine: Yam 85
MMSI: 235055163
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,826
RIBase
No. Absolutely not.

If you're in any doubt try googling 'using hydrogen as a catalyst' and the only thing that you'll find that's actually relevant is another one of the HHO scams.

Spend 10 minutes watching the videos here(click)and take note of how much Dennis Lee (the 'inventor' of this) sounds like a TV evangelist.

Then look up another one of his cons, the pre-ignition catalytic converter ( Public Debut of the Pre Ignition Catalytic Converter ) where he seems to think you can crack petrol into a type of plasma fuel that's 50 or 60% efficient (depending on how much bollocks you read) using car battery power. This is impossible-to quote Wikipedia:-

Quote:
The largest internal combustion engines in the world are two-stroke diesels, used in some locomotives and large ships. They use forced induction (similar to super-charging, or turbocharging) to scavenge the cylinders; an example of this type of motor is the Wšrtsilš-Sulzer turbocharged two-stroke diesel as used in large container ships. It is the most efficient and powerful internal combustion engine in the world with over 50% thermal efficiency.[4][5][6][7] For comparison, the most efficient small four-stroke motors are around 43% thermal efficiency (SAE 900648); size is an advantage for efficiency due to the increase in the ratio of volume to surface area.
The guy is a scammer of the worst kind. He robs people who are desperately trying to save money.
__________________
Need spares,consoles,consumables,hire,training or even a new boat?

Please click HERE and HERE and support our Trade Members.

Join up as a Trade member or Supporter HERE
Nos4r2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 December 2012, 10:05   #15
Member
 
Leapy's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Sheepy Parva
Boat name: Sadly Sold
Length: no boat
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,728
Try THIS for some light reading. For those wanting deeper science there are innumerable reference links from reputable sources.
__________________
Leapy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 December 2012, 14:13   #16
Member
 
Pikey Dave's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: South Yorks
Boat name: Black Pig
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: DF140a
MMSI: 235111389
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 9,393
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nos4r2 View Post
No. Absolutely not.

If you're in any doubt try googling 'using hydrogen as a catalyst' and the only thing that you'll find that's actually relevant is another one of the HHO scams.

Spend 10 minutes watching the videos here(click)and take note of how much Dennis Lee (the 'inventor' of this) sounds like a TV evangelist.

Then look up another one of his cons, the pre-ignition catalytic converter ( Public Debut of the Pre Ignition Catalytic Converter ) where he seems to think you can crack petrol into a type of plasma fuel that's 50 or 60% efficient (depending on how much bollocks you read) using car battery power. This is impossible-to quote Wikipedia:-



The guy is a scammer of the worst kind. He robs people who are desperately trying to save money.
Well, the monoatomic ionized hydrogen sold it to me
Like I said, just playing devils advocate (slow day)
__________________
Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
Rule#3: Tha' can't educate pork.
Rule#4:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y
Pikey Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 December 2012, 14:45   #17
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Surrey
Boat name: Fugly & Rokraider 1
Make: Pac 22 & Porter 6.5
Length: 6m +
Engine: Ford 250 & jet,DT140
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 681
I don't have any understanding of this subject, but can't see how this can work ie free energy.
I experimented with a methanol breather system when I was living near Reno Nevada in the 80's. I had a 350 Chev fitted into a 1942 Ex army Dodge ambulance as my everyday car. I found using Methanol as an additive breathed directly into the inlet manifold via a regulator, I could pull the ignition timing up by another 15 degrees over standard without any pre ignition issues (Pinking). This made a huge difference to the vehicles performance, much livelier everywhere. I should point out that this was at 5500' above sea level. When going back down to sea level, I had to back the timing off again as pinking would become an issue.
With the methanol system working properly, I found if I resisted the urge to use the extra performance, there was a marked increase in economy, maybe 3-4 miles to a gallon. I assume this is due to the engine running more efficiently. The 350 was an old school V8 fitted with a Rochester 2 barrel carb, so not exactly state of the art.
I realise that this is a totally different discussion, but wondered whether one of these hydrogen devices, if they worked and were used in the same way, could boost the engines efficiency?
__________________
Rokraider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 December 2012, 15:19   #18
Member
 
Leapy's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Sheepy Parva
Boat name: Sadly Sold
Length: no boat
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokraider View Post
I don't have any understanding of this subject ...
Neither do I, Nos, Cookee et al. Neither does the might of the world's automotive industry brains trust. But we're all desperate for someone to tell us with data and facts, witnessed and verified. Please.

But, there could be a very good reason why no-one can.

Back in the carb day there were all sorts of fuel saving devices offering unbelievable power and economy improvements - trick spark plugs, fuel pressure regulators, magic fuel additives, magnetic whats-its around fuel lines, and and and ... Some bod fitted all of them to his car at the same time, and guess what?

Nothing. Other than the negative effect of the extra weight being carted around.
__________________
Leapy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 December 2012, 16:35   #19
RIBnet admin team
 
Nos4r2's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: The wilds of Wiltshire
Boat name: Dominator
Make: SR5.4
Length: 7m +
Engine: Yam 85
MMSI: 235055163
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,826
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokraider View Post
I don't have any understanding of this subject, but can't see how this can work ie free energy.
I experimented with a methanol breather system when I was living near Reno Nevada in the 80's. I had a 350 Chev fitted into a 1942 Ex army Dodge ambulance as my everyday car. I found using Methanol as an additive breathed directly into the inlet manifold via a regulator, I could pull the ignition timing up by another 15 degrees over standard without any pre ignition issues (Pinking). This made a huge difference to the vehicles performance, much livelier everywhere. I should point out that this was at 5500' above sea level. When going back down to sea level, I had to back the timing off again as pinking would become an issue.
With the methanol system working properly, I found if I resisted the urge to use the extra performance, there was a marked increase in economy, maybe 3-4 miles to a gallon. I assume this is due to the engine running more efficiently. The 350 was an old school V8 fitted with a Rochester 2 barrel carb, so not exactly state of the art.
I realise that this is a totally different discussion, but wondered whether one of these hydrogen devices, if they worked and were used in the same way, could boost the engines efficiency?
I suspect your benefits were because the methanol cools the charge and the extra air density from the cooled charge made the lions share/all the difference you saw.Unless you were chucking gallons of methanol in, it wouldn't make much odds to the power of the motor from the combustion of the methanol.
(FWIW,Methanol contains less energy than petrol-which is why carbed drag engines running on methanol use HUGE mainjets and the huge volume of methanol going in almost negates the need for a cooling system.)

5,500 feet up plus hot air isn't going to be much fun for an engine.

Burning a hydrogen/oxygen mix wouldn't help-it's not going to be cold. Water injection may have helped in almost the same manner though.
__________________
Need spares,consoles,consumables,hire,training or even a new boat?

Please click HERE and HERE and support our Trade Members.

Join up as a Trade member or Supporter HERE
Nos4r2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 December 2012, 18:03   #20
Member
 
Country: Ireland
Town: Dublin & Enniscrone
Boat name: K'adů
Make: Redbay
Length: 7m +
Engine: Suzuki 300
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 613
HHO Magic

Well done to those who are able to understand what I am getting at.

Pikey Dave appears to understand.

I accept that these are not some sort of free energy device.

I have first hand experience of one in a Trooper which has lowered fuel consumption by as much as 30% on long journeys.

What I am keen to find is someone who has tried it on the 2.5 Freelander.

For those who are interested in checking it out a bit more have a look at some of the youtube entries on this link.


N JOY

hho generator in car - YouTube
__________________

__________________
Take it easy ....but, take it all the way.
Ezgoing is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:57.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.