Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 08 April 2018, 18:23   #1
Member
 
Yabadabadoo's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: London
Make: Aerotec 3.8
Length: 3m +
Engine: Mercury T/S 15hp
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 242
2.2 Egg beater - running problems

Hello all, have got running issues with a Suzuki DT 2.2 wanted to check I'm on the right/wrong lines

Haven't used it since it ran quite sweetly in a barrel for 15+ minutes happily when I bought it and when I tried it again late last year it died on me and hasn't gone right since

Seems to me it's overheating, with the case off the whole thing becomes too hot to touch. I've had a look at and taken out/put back the impeller, seems fine (not brittle, teeth all there, facing in the right direction, pin in place behind it) there isn't a tell tail as the water leaves via a gap in front of the prop, when up to speed there should be a mist from a couple of holes to the rear of the leg, I get that. Ran it for a bit today without the prop on but it wouldn't last long enough for me to feel if there was water coming from said gap

Would the wrong fuel mix cause over heating? Who I bought it from swore by 50:1 but that seems a bit heavy to me, the fuel in it at the moment is 50:1 and new. I've cleaned the tank out - spotless, cleaned the filter, took the carb apart enough to get any bits n bobs out of the float bowl and to see light through the main jet. Used some thinners to clean it up, no gunk in there. Changed the plug for a new one

Fired up lovely, then coming up to temp couldn't keep ticker and tried to die, I'd increase the revs to stop that from happening hoping it might clear itself? Have played around with the fuel mixture after that. Wound in screw to a soft close then backed out 1.5 turns, started again ok but sputtered out soon after. Played a bit with the idle screw but nothing doing there, at a certain point it didn't like to idle, likes a high idle but even at that point it starts to fade and won't start again - as mentioned gets v hot

So if it isn't or can't be the fuel - can it? I should change the impeller as a place to start and if it isn't that take it all apart and look at the waterways

It's such a simple little lump that I don't find stripping it daunting, quite a few how to (break your outboard) vids on youtube of the DT2

No blockage visible to speak of, could a stone have gotten in? Last thought was gear oil, I've not checked that yet.

Plan A then, continue with basic service - impeller, gear oil - and work inwards?

Edit here: Just reading someone else's post about over heating, they noted white smoke. As this egg beater sputtered out on the regents canal with me last year, I also noted whitish smoke. Lost of power then smoke - head gasket?

Further into the Engines and Props section I go the more I'm putting two and two together.. Just reading a tale of woe about a 15hp ts that seized, if the eggbeater overheated - it was around 2/3rds to WOT at the time it smoked - then I'm learning the internals has expanded and although it runs again when cooled down when it warms up again it seizes, would explain the heat! So I could have a new anchor on the plus side :-D How can I diagnose a suspected seize, or have I already?
__________________
Yabadabadoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09 April 2018, 03:26   #2
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Retford
Boat name: Spy-sea-one
Make: Mercury
Length: 3m +
Engine: Suzuki Outboard/25/4
MMSI: 235074042
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,366
personally i would have the head off and look at the waterways plus thermostat and check the piston & bore and take it from there others might have better ideas
__________________

__________________
jeffstevens763@g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09 April 2018, 04:00   #3
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: East Anglia
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Mariner 9.9 4-stroke
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,258
A motor designed with no tell-tale is always a stress to know is it/isn't it cooling.

You may have two issues both cause by little use... carb gummed up and blocked waterways around the cylinder.

So I'm with Jeff. I'd check out the cooling issue before running again. I have no idea what access you can get to the cooling passages on your motor so can't help there.

Just have a look at the pic below of my old Mariner 4. It had been fine for years with hardly any use then one year I pulled it out of storage and the tell tale wouldn't produce water and it started to steam. The salt deposits had turned to a semi-solid jelly.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Mariner 4 salt deposits.jpg
Views:	122
Size:	149.8 KB
ID:	124189  
__________________
Fenlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09 April 2018, 04:11   #4
Member
 
Yabadabadoo's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: London
Make: Aerotec 3.8
Length: 3m +
Engine: Mercury T/S 15hp
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 242
I didn’t know there was a thermostat! It’s more or less like a sketch of ‘how a combustion engine works’ I’ve been quite happy tinkering away on it so an excuse to spend a bit more time taking it apart I don’t mind. Ideally if I could add a neutral and reverse gear to it while there would be excellent!
__________________
Yabadabadoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09 April 2018, 04:16   #5
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Retford
Boat name: Spy-sea-one
Make: Mercury
Length: 3m +
Engine: Suzuki Outboard/25/4
MMSI: 235074042
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,366
regarding salt and nothing to do with engines but just to show the effect of leaving salt water in anything. i keep marine fish if i dont clean out my mixing pump with fresh water the water evaporates leaving salt crystals that is enough to stop the impeller from turning and we are only talking 10 ml of water. fenlander's pic is spot on i would expect something similar from what your experiencing.
to clean waterways use citric acid it will dissolve the salt or vinegar.
__________________
jeffstevens763@g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09 April 2018, 16:34   #6
Member
 
spartacus's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Aberdeenshire
Boat name: Sula
Make: Ribcraft 4.8m
Length: 4m +
Engine: Tohatsu 60hp + aux
MMSI: 235087213
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,548
RIBase
I'd be inclined to run it in a Salt Away or vinegar solution as Jeff has mentioned and see if that does the trick. Yes, you can start to dismantle the head or water jacket but if one of the bolts breaks (always a danger), then you'll need to drill out, retap or helicoil, etc.

Changing the impeller first is a good place to start then work back. Wouldn't worry about too much oil in your petrol... that might just have saved it from seizing.
__________________
Is that with or without VAT?
spartacus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09 April 2018, 17:04   #7
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Poole
Boat name: El Mono
Make: Ribtec 9M
Length: 9m +
Engine: Yanmar 315/Bravo III
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 473
Sounds like my DT2.2 last year... Mine, which is used for the yacht tender so typically gets heavily used for a few weeks in a year, then only very occasionally, intermittently started doing this last year in the Channel Islands in June, and then when we were up in the Solent late season. I poked bits of wire up various places in the Channel Islands (which helped for a bit), checked and replaced the impeller (which did nothing), and checked everything else I could. The engine would start and run as perfectly as ever, but just no spitting out the rear holes as it has done for the last 20 years!

I finally took it fully apart over Christmas (thankfully everything came undone perfectly), and the picture below shows all the gunk clocking up some of the passageways. I cleared it all out and put it back together for a quick test in a bucket, and it was perfect.

Since then, I've ordered the full gasket kit, so now need to take it apart again to replace the various gaskets, and will then reassembly properly ready for the Summer!

These engines are very easy to work on - I forget how many times I've stripped it whilst sitting on the yacht in various anchorages, so just follow the instructions/videos and go for it - there's nothing clever about them at all. I guess the main potentially annoying thing is shearing some bolts, but certainly on mine, which has sat on a sailing yacht for the past 14 years and not really been shown any love, I had no issues at all.

Good luck!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20171209_151318.jpg
Views:	101
Size:	107.7 KB
ID:	124201  
__________________
paulbrown22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 April 2018, 04:31   #8
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Retford
Boat name: Spy-sea-one
Make: Mercury
Length: 3m +
Engine: Suzuki Outboard/25/4
MMSI: 235074042
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,366
if it's possible to stand the engine on its head and poor diluted citric acid into the engine water intake[thats all saltaway is by the way but more expensive] leave for a few hours then flush with a hose that way you might get enough water going through to prevent it seizing then run it in a bucket of citric acid then flush with clean water. you can buy a 1kg bag for about a £5 off ebay its safe to use put the acid crystals into water not the other way round.
__________________
jeffstevens763@g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 April 2018, 17:59   #9
Member
 
Yabadabadoo's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: London
Make: Aerotec 3.8
Length: 3m +
Engine: Mercury T/S 15hp
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 242
Something like this ?https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F380722519910


What would the ratio be for having it sat upside down and a running flush? How long to leave it upside down, can the acid do damage if left too long?



Itching to take it apart but yes might sheer a nut and it might be good to see if it runs again before going further. I'm feeling it will and good point the heavier oil mix may well have been a saving grace


Would citric acid dissolve or would I see deposits come out? There is something satisfying about cleaning a casing back to smooth metal
__________________
Yabadabadoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 April 2018, 04:19   #10
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Retford
Boat name: Spy-sea-one
Make: Mercury
Length: 3m +
Engine: Suzuki Outboard/25/4
MMSI: 235074042
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,366
thats the stuff.
i used 1kg per plastic dustbin to clean my aquarium rock for 24 hours [the rock dissolved on the surface to clean it, the rock is old reef which is made by corals from seawater.
i put a piece of ordinary aluminum in the solution for 2 weeks to see if it caused any damage which it didn't i also put a bricklayers trowel in for the same period and it dissolved all the concrete off it left that rusty which would be the o2 in the water allowing that.
i also looked at saltaway which i use to flush my engines once a year the data sheet shows its citric acid with some additives i think to leave a coating on the waterway surfaces to help prevent adhesion of salt.
if you use any de-salter there will always be a risk of large deposits coming off and blocking water flow which is alright when you can see a tail tell coming from the engine whilst running.
personally in your case i would mix say a gallon of acid & water starting with 250 g / gallon fill leave for two hours and then flush with water see what comes out do that a couple of times until you have a good flow then you could add some to a bin stand the engine in and run but keep an eye on engine temp.
if it has a thermostat i would take that out and clean by hand in the solution i've seen those totally blocked up.
for info we use citric acid & vinegar to clean pumps but vinegar is more aggressive out of the two my opinion is if it can be used safely on aquarium pumps it's going to be fine in an engine which runs its life in saltwater which is abrasive as well.
if you take your time you should be ok better than stripping down risking bolts breaking but that might have to be done depending on how bad it is.
__________________

__________________
jeffstevens763@g is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:43.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.