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Old 22 April 2005, 09:19   #1
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250mm freeboard

Hi,

I am in the process of getting my rib coded. My rib is apx 1997 (pre XL shaft) therefore has a cutout in the transom for the engine. The surveyor has mentioned the 250mm requirement, unless I want to go for cat 6, where it is not a problem.

I notice that Rogue Wave, you mentioned that you were having a similar problem but that the surveyor changed his mind in the end.

Can anyone clarify what the situation is? Surely their must be plenty of pre XL shaft ribs out there that are coded for cat 4 or 5 and have therefore come across this problem.

Thanks,

Tony.
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Old 22 April 2005, 09:20   #2
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What about ribs without a transom - ocean dynamics make some like this so water can just pour out of the back!!!
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Old 22 April 2005, 09:35   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Barber
Hi,

I am in the process of getting my rib coded. My rib is apx 1997 (pre XL shaft) therefore has a cutout in the transom for the engine. The surveyor has mentioned the 250mm requirement, unless I want to go for cat 6, where it is not a problem. Tony.
Just to rub the salt in, they will also measure how high the transom is and calculate how much water could be trapped inside the boat by the high transom so a high transom counts against you.

My surveyor took a common sence approach to my requirement which was also short of the 250 mm requirement. It was based on the boat not being loaded to anything like its full capacity, operating only in daylight and 20 miles from safe haven (Cat 4) and subsantial self bailers fitted incase it did go pear shaped.

I would speak with your surveyor first and ask him what he recommends, let him ponder over the solution.

Pete
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Old 22 April 2005, 19:04   #4
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Firstly you say pre 1997 - xl shaft. Sorry but this is lost on me as xl was here many years ago pre 1997.

Secondly the 250mm is there for a good reason. In the case of a vessel with total loss of propulsion then the min freeboard and transom will ensure a dry sitauation for all....relative to the required pumping ( please study downflooding etc). It is in the new harmonised codes and if someone can gain dispensation then it should never be be for CAT4 (20 miles) IMOP.

Last your suggestion of a 5m boat for CAT 4. Sorry to say ( and whether the MCA or others agree) ... what a joke.

Yes the boat may cope with B waters (and be RCD for such) but it cannot support all systems required for the survival of passengers in a "situation".

Cheers

John
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Old 23 April 2005, 03:08   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quinquarimarine
Firstly you say pre 1997 - xl shaft. Sorry but this is lost on me as xl was here many years ago pre 1997.
You may well be right. The reason I mentioned it is because Ribcraft informed me that when my boat was manufactured XL shaft engines were not freely available in 135hp (which is what it originally had on it), hence the requirement for a section to be cut out of the transom. I understand that this is not now the case, therefore a new 585 would not have the cutout, but maybe the dates are wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by quinquarimarine
Last your suggestion of a 5m boat for CAT 4. Sorry to say ( and whether the MCA or others agree) ... what a joke.
Yes the boat may cope with B waters (and be RCD for such) but it cannot support all systems required for the survival of passengers in a "situation".
Sorry, I'm not sure what RCD means? However, I'm sure there are other ribs around the 6m mark that are coded for cat 4. Whether or not you would actually go 20 miles with paying passengers on board is another matter. However (and I may be wrong here) cat 5 & 6 don't give as much flexibility as I would like. The reason for getting the boat coded is because I have started to instruct RYA PB courses. There is a big jump from 3 to 20 miles and the NDP makes working around the country difficult. The boat does not need to be coded for PB courses, however you are restricted to 3 miles from your base. In good weather I donít see whatís wrong with a passage that will take you more than 3 miles from land, if you are confident in the boat and the students abilities. It gives them more experience under supervision and certainly makes the course more enjoyable. By the way, the boat was red coded under the old system.

Tony.
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Old 23 April 2005, 04:05   #6
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Originally Posted by quinquarimarine
Yes the boat may cope with B waters (and be RCD for such) but it cannot support all systems required for the survival of passengers in a "situation". Cheers John
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John, its a 5.85 Ribcraft for use in Cat 4, thats daylight favourable weather conditions. I wouldn't have thought this would be a problem with a 4/5 person limit, although stowing all the kit and liferaft might be chanllenging.

Tont, 2 thoughts, build a splash well inside the transom, allowing room for the engine to trim up or fit a jack plate so the transom can be raised.

Pete
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Old 23 April 2005, 11:00   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quinquarimarine
Firstly you say pre 1997 - xl shaft. Sorry but this is lost on me as xl was here many years ago pre 1997.

Secondly the 250mm is there for a good reason. In the case of a vessel with total loss of propulsion then the min freeboard and transom will ensure a dry sitauation for all....relative to the required pumping ( please study downflooding etc). It is in the new harmonised codes and if someone can gain dispensation then it should never be be for CAT4 (20 miles) IMOP.

Last your suggestion of a 5m boat for CAT 4. Sorry to say ( and whether the MCA or others agree) ... what a joke.

Yes the boat may cope with B waters (and be RCD for such) but it cannot support all systems required for the survival of passengers in a "situation".

Cheers

John
www.quinquari.co.uk

Does this mean that the old Thousand Island boats with NO transom would be impossible to code then??? I thought they were VERY impressive!!!

In fact they STILL make workboats with no transom

http://www.ribworker.com/9metre.htm

Surely they must be coded boats???
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Old 25 April 2005, 16:47   #8
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Pete, Tony & Cod

Fair points all round.

Tony the fact that you were told that an xl was not available in the 135 was probably due to supply and as you did not require a coded vessel at the time was acceptable. However this is not mitigation.

Pete. A 5.85 RC was not what I wrote about. I was thinking along the lines of a 5m. My general policy is 6m and above is OK, less than that is borderline but do remember that this is my own personal ethos. I recently came across a 6m coded for 12 pax plus 2 for CAT 3..... that does make me cross.

A 6ish m for a limited pax in CAT 4 is OK esp if for training work. If for general passenger a 6m for 20 miles is not the job. I would advise a min of 8.5m and that is from practical experience ie. not for sales.

CodP. Yes OD built a cracking boat for the right application. In this case the transom does in effect not exist ie. it can not trap any water and due to the wl/deck level creates no risk of static flooding.

Cheers

John
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Old 25 April 2005, 18:38   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quinquarimarine
Pete, Tony & Cod

CodP. Yes OD built a cracking boat for the right application. In this case the transom does in effect not exist ie. it can not trap any water and due to the wl/deck level creates no risk of static flooding.

Cheers

John
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See what you mean - the deck level is quite "high and dry" - I suppose it would get pretty miserable for the passengers being constantly wet!!!
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Old 26 April 2005, 04:05   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quinquarimarine
Pete. A 5.85 RC was not what I wrote about. I was thinking along the lines of a 5m. My general policy is 6m and above is OK, less than that is borderline but do remember that this is my own personal ethos. I recently came across a 6m coded for 12 pax plus 2 for CAT 3..... that does make me cross.
Someone is taking the mick, 14 people on a 6m rib for cat 3, that would annoy me too, although the MCA are not beyond bending there own rules to suit there own purposes.

Quote:
A 6ish m for a limited pax in CAT 4 is OK esp if for training work.
Given the size and kit fitted to some of the training boats I see in the Solent (they are not members of Ribnet) I think Tonys approach to going the extra bit and having the boat coded very laudable.

Pete
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