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Old 28 October 2005, 09:31   #61
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Don't make the error of mistaking subservience for respect...


..and did we always have "good relations" with "The Middle East" ? Examples off the top of my head are Aden.. then what about Iran? I don’t think you can say we always had “good relations”. What we had was/is relations with people who needed us and whom we needed….
Having LIVED in Aden I happen to know what I am talking about!!! I have also lived in Saudi and most of the UAE - also worked there for a time. My father and my Uncle were still out there until very recently and I still keep in touch with lots of expats.

In Aden - as in Northen Ireland - it was a small minority causing all the trouble. We lived there AFTER they had their independence - so we had no real say so on how things were run - and yet the people treated us amazingly well.

We never had to lock our doors and felt totally safe - until the Russians came. I was only a very young child when all this happened but I do remember the Arab people being very friendly. The local Arabs were terrified when the last Brits were leaving as they would have to cope with the russians alone.
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Old 28 October 2005, 09:40   #62
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One of these reasons is the blind support the USA gives Israel. Another is the sheer arrogance with which they treat other people.

Well "perfideous Albion" let them down quite a bit........Thank god for the US
The UK were too intent of pleasing the Arabs and they came up with solutions that were - to say the least un-acceptable for all parties- look at what they did to Larwence- the only guy around then who could have come up with an acceptable Middle East solution.

Anyway whats the betting that the Israelies 'settle" the irananians before you can say "shalom"--- that's when it starts to get interesting and a bible prophecy will be fulfilled...... Kindly explain with your Arab leanings ,why the president of Iran did'nt seem to mince his words

jonathan

Will the Israelies "settle" Iran the same way the USA has "settled" Iraq??? Doesn't seem very settled to me!!!

Maybe the Yanks have forgotten one of the Jew's greatest stories - David and Goliath. It is all very well being all high and mighty - but as soon as your back is turned someone will stab you in it - surely it is better to try not to wind people up the wrong way than show them how strong you are all the time?

Anyway the battle between the Jews and Arabs - who after all are really the same people - has been going on since biblical times - why allow ourselves to be dragged into it by the USA???
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Old 28 October 2005, 09:46   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn
Having LIVED in Aden I happen to know what I am talking about!!!
So you base your views on childish memories of happy, smiling Arabs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn
I was only a very young child when all this happened but I do remember the Arab people being very friendly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn
The local Arabs were terrified when the last Brits were leaving as they would have to cope with the russians alone.
That's dependence.. not respect.
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Old 28 October 2005, 09:52   #64
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So you base your views on childish memories of happy, smiling Arabs...






That's dependence.. not respect.
We were treated with respects as were all the other British families living there - we were invited to local Arab's homes and made to feel REALLY wellcom. There is a yemeni community living in Swansea and I still keep in touch with many of them.

It DOES make you wonder if the Indians and Pakistanis or Arabs etc hated Britain so much after our terrible occupation how come so many of them come to live here???

If you actually speak to older Indians or Pakistanis or Yeminis many of them remember British rule with fondness - often we treated them a lot better than their own people did.

Yes I DO base my views on how I was treated as a child - and also how my parents were treated - seems fair enough to me!!!
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Old 28 October 2005, 09:59   #65
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Codders, I'm only baiting you 'cause it amuses me to try and follow your logic, as you may have gathered. I admit it is childish and will try to stop it...but you do promote a reaction...

"It DOES make you wonder if the Indians and Pakistanis or Arabs etc hated Britain so much after our terrible occupation how come so many of them come to live here???"
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Old 28 October 2005, 10:01   #66
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Why are we in Iraq?

The 9/11 attacks were largely carried out by Saudi nationals, funded by Saudis and led by a Saudi - Osama Bin Laden. Under his nominal leadership Al Qaeda had carried out several attacks on the US prior to the 9/11 one, including the previous WTC bombing, killing US servicemen in Somalia, bombing US embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam and attacking the USS Cole in Yemen.

Osama Bin Laden represents a fanatic anti-US sentiment among Saudis and has provided a focus for the wide spread Arab discontent with America, specifically regarding continued US support for Israel. This antipathy has acted against progressive minded regimes and favoured the more extreme xenophobic approach of islamic fundamentalism. Time Magazine recognised the beginning of this anti US sentiment in 1979 when Iran overthrew the Shah and welcomed the return of the Ayatollah Khomeini - "We have witnessed the setting of the fuse on the Islamic time bomb".

Saudi Arabia currently is the largest single supplier of oil to the US. The internal situation within Saudi is very fragile, and the (relatively pro US) Royal family's hold on the country may best be regarded as tenuous. Should the Saudi Royal family be overthrown it is unlikely that the fundamentalists who sieze power will continue to provide oil to the US.

Iraq has the second largest oil reserves in the Middle East. Inventing a cause for invasion was the easiest way of removing Saddam and liberating the oil. Unfortunately this has now meant that Iraq is a breeding ground for fundamentalism and, subsequently, support for Al Qaeda - something which would never have been allowed to happen under Saddam. Irrespective of this the US is now in control of significant supplies of oil, unthreatened by any regime change that might occur in Saudi.

The whole WMD thing was bogus, and the subsequent claim that "regime change" was necessary to bring peace and tranquility to Iraq is visibly ridiculous.
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Old 28 October 2005, 10:13   #67
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Will the Israelies "settle" Iran the same way the USA has "settled" Iraq??? Doesn't seem very settled to me!!!

No way- it wont be messy, the next day Iran wont exist anymore . Period.

Jonathan
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Old 28 October 2005, 11:03   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eupa
Will the Israelies "settle" Iran the same way the USA has "settled" Iraq??? Doesn't seem very settled to me!!!

No way- it wont be messy, the next day Iran wont exist anymore . Period.

Jonathan
And how exactly do you think they will do this? Nuclear weapons? I don't think even the Israelis are that mad and if they are what the hell are people supporting them for?
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Old 28 October 2005, 11:11   #69
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Iraq has the second largest oil reserves in the Middle East. Inventing a cause for invasion was the easiest way of removing Saddam and liberating the oil. Unfortunately this has now meant that Iraq is a breeding ground for fundamentalism and, subsequently, support for Al Qaeda - something which would never have been allowed to happen under Saddam. Irrespective of this the US is now in control of significant supplies of oil, unthreatened by any regime change that might occur in Saudi.

The whole WMD thing was bogus, and the subsequent claim that "regime change" was necessary to bring peace and tranquility to Iraq is visibly ridiculous.

Well described but to be honest I really don't think it was becuase of oil - IF it was the Yanks are even more stupid than I thought!!!

Before the 2nd Gulf war oil prices were at the lowest ever - down to about $14 a barrell - so cheap many oil fields weren't economically viable.

Now due to the fighting in Iraq etc the price of oil is up to $65 a barrell. Who does this hurt the most? The Yanks!!! Who benefits the most? The Arabs and the Russians!!!

IF it was about oil they have shot themselves in the foot somewhat!!! I honestly think it was all about trying to save face after Sept 11th. Recent opinion polls suggest that the majority of Yanks thing the Iraq war was because of sept 11th - to them an Ayrab is an Ayrab - they just don't understand the difference!!!
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Old 28 October 2005, 12:04   #70
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And how exactly do you think they will do this? Nuclear weapons? I don't think even the Israelis are that mad and if they are what the hell are people supporting them for?

You bet !!!!. They have basically three options:

1. air strike the nuclear facilities
2. all out invasion a la the 6 day war
3. Tactical nuclear take out

If they think the Jewish state is under threat ( "wiped off the map")- they will go for option 3 without hesitation- and it would happen soon while
they still have an advanatge.

Jonathan
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