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Old 10 March 2003, 10:06   #81
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Ok, I have some genuine prices from 3 independent dealers based in Cape Town on the following motors if anyone is interested:

Yamaha 200 HPDI - R162,500 = £12,888.00
Yamaha 4stroke 225 - R164,900 = £13,078.00
Yamaha F100 BETL - R86,996 = £6,899.00
Yamaha 225 GETL - R107,990 = £8,654.00

I am awaiting prices on other makes and will post these as soon as they are available.
NB: Prices include SA VAT 14% which can be reclaimed once the export papers are finalised. Shipping and transport have to be priced by yourselves.
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Old 10 March 2003, 10:11   #82
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Next up are Mariner/Mercury prices. Strangely enough, in SA there is NO difference in pricing between the two, not like over here.

Mariner/Mercury 200 Optimax - R132,552 = £10,497.00
225 Optimax - R141,000 = £11,166.00

Again VAT inclusive ex shipping costs.
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Old 10 March 2003, 10:16   #83
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Thanks Charles

Are those manufacturers RRP's or actual prices obtainable when doing a deal? For example I know that a Yam 200 HPDi lists around £12k in UK but that when you come to do a deal then a discount is usually given.

Irrespective of that it would seem that Yams at least are not significantly cheaper to buy in SA than here in good 'ol UK. Take into account shipping and warranty issues and my preference would be to buy in UK, albeit at best price I could.

Interesting thing is that I could see that control of supply by Yam would make the prices moreorless the same globally. When I was researching chartplotters last year I found a similar thing from US sosurces - by the time you buy something and bring it in here, even if you manage to avoid duty the cost benefit is not so signficant.

The area where I guess the cost saving is greater is in RIBS themselves where a) labour is a more significant factor in pricing and b) the supplying companies are not multinational and are not interested in price and market control.
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Old 10 March 2003, 10:19   #84
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Charles

do you know what comparitive UK prices are , so you could edit your post and put the UK prices alongside ?
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Old 10 March 2003, 10:25   #85
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Trailer

The second RIB I imported from SA came with a trailer which was priced at R22,500.00, in todays money it is more or less £1,700.00. At the time the Rand was far weaker and I paid just over £1,380.00. In my opinion, this was the best manufactured trailer I have ever seen and included the tail lights housed in a rubber water proof housing, no more mucking about with trailer boards. You could simply arrive at the slip and reverse straight in.
The jockey wheel was for once, quite a substantial piece of kit with a pneumatic tyre and really quite bullet-proof. All in all exceptionally well-constructed. I would go along with Manos in this instance and consider sourcing trailers from SA because it really is good value for money.
See pic attached.
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Old 10 March 2003, 10:27   #86
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Charles

The prices you show are correct but I think they include VAT and may be they do not include discout?

As a matter of fact I have the ACTUAL Yamaha price list to the delares in SAfrica how much they buy and how much are suppose to sell and is a little bit different.
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Old 10 March 2003, 10:48   #87
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Re: Trailer

Quote:
Originally posted by Charles
I would go along with Manos in this instance and consider sourcing trailers from SA because it really is good value for money.
But he was talking about a trailer for a 10 metre boat for under £700. That's a rather different proposition to your trailer for £1,700 . . .

John
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Old 10 March 2003, 10:51   #88
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Alan, you have raised some pertinent points which, if I may, would like to respond to - this is my opinion only, and talking from experience!

The prices quoted are RRP. All the dealers would be prepared to offer a discount of between 9 and 11%. There are NO significant gains, monetary or otherwise importing an outboard from SA - however it is a different scenario importing a packaged RIB, known as a 'brown' import. Let's just stick to the engines for a moment. Personally, I would NEVER consider imporing Yamaha o/boards into the UK because YAMUK are just not interested if something goes wrong under warranty.
The issue of 'price-fixing' is relevant in this instance. Globally, Yamaha outboards are more or less the same price.

The last point I would make, (I may be shot down in flames), is this:
South African ribs are generally very strong and capable sea-boats. Where my fellow country-men let themselves down horribly is the QA. The boats are simply just not finished to the high standard you would expect in Europe or America/Canada. Labour is incredibly cheap and therefore the boats are cheaper, not necessarily better.
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Old 10 March 2003, 10:51   #89
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How about these prices then, just spoke to a well known dealer for both ribs and engines, and was quoted the following

Merc 200 longshaft opti, £ 8,500 including vat

Yam hpdi 200 Longshaft £ £8,599 including vat

These are genuine prices told to me over the phone 5 minutes ago, as a retail customer.

It's worth bearing in mind that the merc comes with control box and s/s prop, but the yam doesn't!
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Old 10 March 2003, 10:54   #90
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Re: Re: Trailer

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Originally posted by John Kennett
But he was talking about a trailer for a 10 metre boat for under £700. That's a rather different proposition to your trailer for £1,700 . . .

John
I take your point John - the same trailer over here would set you back £3,500.00, maybe more. Whatever Manos quoted, rightly or wrongly, you will definitely save thousands in acquiring a trailer from SA.
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Old 10 March 2003, 10:54   #91
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Oh, forgot to say that he has some yam 200 carb motors for £6,000 incl vat. Not the most econominal motor you can buy but £2,500 buys a lot of petrol!

If any one would like to know who the dealer is pm me, and unlike a certain "marine consultant", I don't charge for this info
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Old 10 March 2003, 11:02   #92
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Sounds about right Dirk. I bought a 150opti back in 2001 for £7500 incl vat, prop, control box and smart-guages. Think it also included rigging for that matter. This was through TL Harvey in the West Mids whom I can't recommend highly enough.

I personally wouldnt buy a carb engine at any price. Resale will be a bitch with these things in years to come!
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Old 10 March 2003, 11:06   #93
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Giggler,
Why don't you just tell em it's Barnett marine?


P.S. I won't charge either!
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Old 10 March 2003, 11:11   #94
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On a lighter note, what ever happened to Jordan?
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Old 10 March 2003, 11:29   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dirk Diggler
Merc 200 longshaft opti, £ 8,500 including vat
!
Sounds good to me, I am blessed with a VAT free status so for £7,055.00 I would have a new Merc Opti 200 - Bargain!
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Old 10 March 2003, 11:35   #96
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Quote:
Originally posted by Charles


Sounds good to me, I am blessed with a VAT free status so for £7,055.00 I would have a new Merc Opti 200 - Bargain!
So will you be ordering a brace for the back of your Scorpion then?
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Old 10 March 2003, 11:38   #97
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Here is what I think I have learned so far.

1. RIBS may be expensive, but there seem to be good reasons for it. If it takes 700 hours at say £30ph, for example, to build a 10m RIB, that’s 20-25k Sterling already on top of your material costs.
2. It seems that if you take the either the trade price and add profit and tax, you end up with the price you and I have to pay anyway (viz. the £5k (JF) versus £9k (me) for a tube set.)
3. Buying parts cheaper in other countries. There are several points here regarding quality of workmanship, freight, duty and taxes etc. for non-global brand products, which may cause one to hesitate. On global brands like engines, I have some experience here. It is normal in a market, like the EU for example, to cause to be set, either a single price OR, to set barriers to stop cross-border trading and “undermining” your other resellers (warranty support on engines is a typical example). This becomes more important and more emphatically imposed, the larger and more powerful the manufacturer. If you didn’t impose this control, arbitrage traders would quickly ruin your reseller network. I am not surprised that Manos has had some difficulty here. The only place likely to be able to temporarily beat this is in the USA where the laws are tough, traders are smart and the market large enough to permit some product “leakage” abroad. Be very aware though, that should this leakage turn to a flood, STEPS WILL BE TAKEN to stop it!
4. What should a small specialist, quality RIB builders margin be anyway? The guy deserves a reasonable living and ROI doesn’t he?

So, in conclusion, RIBs may be expensive, but are they value for money?
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Old 10 March 2003, 12:07   #98
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Well done Brian, that says it all very well! now lets get on with our normal lives bickering about even less important things LOL
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Old 10 March 2003, 12:53   #99
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Lastly, I think that most of us here are trying ti make a discussion about how mto get a better deal with our product i.e. the RIB and engine.
The point is not to argue for the sake of but to constructively put down our thoughts.
Many of us gave their valued opinions, VERY FEW contributed very little to nothing to this discussion.

Brian makes some VERY VALUABLE points whith which I agree also some others made some good points too.

The bottom line once again is that if is there any possibility in getting a product (with the same quqlity as you may get it in Europe) somewhere else at a lesser prices then go for it.

So far it seems to me that there are other places where products are cheaper.

Going out to do a few bits and bobs on my RIB.
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Old 15 March 2003, 11:22   #100
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Boat Package
Falcon 575SR RIB with integral nose seat / hatch 29933
Falcon 750 console with front seat 3112
Grabrail for console (316 stainless steel) 722
Perspex screen for console 560
GRP box seat with reversible backrest, upholstered2158
Ski-bar (316 stainless steel) 2140
Bowrail (316 stainless steel) 1882
Steering system complete (cable) 2050
Control cables* 750
Built-in 70-litre plastic fuel cell with instrumentation4250
Deep cycle battery, box & marine terminals* 550
Galvanized Trailer complete with 14" wheels 11791
Boat Total R 59,898

Recommended single motor options
Yamaha F100BETL (Four-stroke, power trim) 66000
Yamaha F115AETL (Four-stroke, power trim) 76700
* Prices quoted are inclusive of VAT at 14%.
Above quote recently received from Falcon for the boat spec as in picture

Shipping inclusive of all costs would be ZAR 16000
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