Speeding and the law

PeterR · 01 May 2006, 08:37

Without going into the rights and wrongs of speeding i was wanting to know how it stands if on the water your doing saying fifty five mph on a nice calm quiet river the speed limit is six knots What evidence would be needed to impose a fine or more.If say a speed gun are these calibrated the same as the police ones and would they need proof of this.My apologise if this has been dicussed before but im sure we all go faster than we should at times .I will often be doing say 12 knots in the river as that is the slowest i can go to keep it on the plane.So i,m still speeding

TJ101 · 01 May 2006, 09:15

Well get off the plane.. 6 knots,, is 6 knots not 12 !!!!

Alice · 01 May 2006, 09:24

It's an awkward one. Speed that excessive would probably lead to the Harbour Master banning you from the waters under his authority. Someone taking pics could be enough. Flat out on the plane is obviously not 6 knts, you don't need a speed camera for that one. In Falmouth, in the harbour area 'a word' is the usual outcome when caught as long as the speeds aren't too excessive.

CJL · 01 May 2006, 10:03

In strict legal terms the Harbour Master is covered by the "burden of proof" i.e. he must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you had broken the law.

If he had a photo you could get it thrown out as the photo is evidence and wont have been taken in accordance with the Police and Criminal Evidence Act. This act covers the security of evidence and how it is handled and it is unlikely that evidence would be handled in such a manner.

Therefore If el yottie took a photo of you doing 200knots unless the yottie and the harbour master could not prove that the photo had not been doctored then its quite likely you could get off scot free. However all this negotiation would have to be in a court room with your own representation. Most people are reluctant to go that far.

Local bylaws may also offer a Habour Master certain other powers particularly if your in a military port.

CJL

Alice · 01 May 2006, 10:08

.... and if it's your 'home' port, it doesn't pay to fall-out with the HM unless you intend to change your boat every six months.

Nos4r2 · 01 May 2006, 10:22

I'd stump up the fine-if your name becomes public you're likely to get lynched (*either physically or financially) by pissed off yotties whos boats have been damaged when they've been slammed against the bank.
Check the bylaws. It's probably a 'no wake' zone too.

When I was a kid we used to fire fishguts with a bait catapult at people behaving like that in a speed limit. It's there for a reason.

tcwozere · 01 May 2006, 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alice

.... and if it's your 'home' port, it doesn't pay to fall-out with the HM unless you intend to change your boat every six months.

Would be a bit like your 'home' forum, the admin, and having to change your username every six months..

Tideway · 01 May 2006, 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by no fear

Without going into the rights and wrongs of speeding i was wanting to know how it stands if on the water your doing saying fifty five mph on a nice calm quiet river the speed limit is six knots

If I was on a nice quiet, calm river, fishing, sailing or pottering around and a RIB came though doing 55mph in a 6 knot limit I would not be happy...Would you?

There is a fair bit of water around the UK, that is thankfully, totally unregulated and you can go as fast as you like, without any qualifications or training, if you desire. It is called the sea...

The areas with a speed limit, generally have it for a reason, normally safety. Unless you are in a jet boat you can't stop that quickly, so if you come around a corner and find a bunch of kids in kayaks, or rowers in sculls, you'll either hit 'em or sink em with the wash! In a river you have very little room to avoid other craft if you are really motoring.

Wash can be a big problem for some carft and can severely knacker up marginal reedbeds and vegetation. If the limit is 6 knots then you will be at displacement speed and yes this can kick up a bigger wash. Simple solution is to slow down a bit more.

I know you didn't want to discuss the rights and wrongs, but jet skis have an appalling reputation due to the high accident rate and the way they are frequently driven. RIBs don't because most of their skippers tend to want to do things properly and in a safe, seamanlike way. That is the appeal to many, but it doesn't stop them opening them up when they can!

Here endeth the lesson..!

t

PS. plus when you finally get out to where the limit ends, it is far more satisfying to punch the throttles wide open...

PeterR · 01 May 2006, 10:53

I thank you for your inputs, some i think have misinterprited me I am considerate on the water to other users conserning wakes and speed also keeping a wide berth and when i mean quite i mean no mored boats.............................Nos4r2 Good for you i,d say if they were that close that you could get them with fish they deserved it.

Alice · 01 May 2006, 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcwozere

Would be a bit like your 'home' forum, the admin, and having to change your username every six months..

Yep, something like that. Although I'm not exactly Mr. 70mph, I do tend to stick to water speed limits. They're there for pretty sensible reasons. The upper reaches of the Fal have had limits placed on them in recent years which can be pretty fustrating as these are fairly big expanses of water. Roy and I did slip a tad over the 8knts when coming back down the other eve.

codprawn · 01 May 2006, 12:24

I thought a planing hull created less wash than when it was travelling just off the plane?

Some displacement hulls I have seen at 6kts make a hell of a wake - far more than say a Ring at 65kts.

Alice · 01 May 2006, 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

I thought a planing hull created less wash than when it was travelling just off the plane?

Some displacement hulls I have seen at 6kts make a hell of a wake - far more than say a Ring at 65kts.

Very true Codders, but the limits aren't just about wash. Using that one when up infront of 'His Honour' probably wouldn't wash either.

Alan · 01 May 2006, 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

I thought a planing hull created less wash than when it was travelling just off the plane?

Some displacement hulls I have seen at 6kts make a hell of a wake - far more than say a Ring at 65kts.

Of course. Ther argument we always trot out is that at 25kts I'm making less wake than at 6. Makes no odds though for 20kts might be inappropriate on a crowded river just as 60mph on a residential street would be foolish. On an empty river with no concerns about bank erosion then what harm are you doing. It comes down to that consideration and courtesy to other users thing. Even in unrestricted areas I would alter course where possible to avoid passing close to other vessels. Its the right thing to do IMHO.

No Fear, are we talking about the River Colne in your example? Some years ago I got 'nabbed' for a complete brainfade moment in heading into the entrance past the channel to Brightlingsea at 50mph in a 21ft Fletcher. The police boat that eventually caught up with us asked us where we had come from and what we were doing. I had the mea culpa moment and confessed to knowing the speedlimit and completely forgetting about it in the relief of having crossed from Bradwell in a very nasty F4-5 chop which involved me (the only person not wearing a wetsuit onboard) getting very wet in the process. The police were actually very decent about it as there were few others around (we were looking for somewhere sheltered to ski) and let me off with a warning. My hardboat friends love to remind me about this incident to this day.

xpertski · 01 May 2006, 13:29

dont go on rivers btw, but engine noise for just on the plane wudnt create much more noise than the chuggering of going slow, and wudnt it create less wash as less hull pushing through the water, within reason?

Jimbob · 01 May 2006, 15:19

two years ago, when i was teaching, two jetski came down the channel towards Northney doing a considerable speed,,,basically they pissed everybody off and probably gave jetskis a bad name,,,knowing which way they were going i VHF'd the harbour master. Why you may ask, well there were lots of kids dinghy sailing and often popped out from behind a moored boat.

Under the Thumb · 01 May 2006, 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by no fear

Without going into the rights and wrongs of speeding i was wanting to know how it stands if on the water your doing saying fifty five mph on a nice calm quiet river the speed limit is six knots

The areas of the nice flat calm river where we were doing 50+ mph were the two waterski areas which are marked on charts for the area and also by signs on the bank, so as long as you weren't following a Grey Ribtec 585 there were no rules broken.

Otherwise you should stick to the speed limits cos they're there for a reason, (which may not be very obvious to us)

roycruse · 01 May 2006, 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alice

Roy and I did slip a tad over the 8knts when coming back down the other eve.

Oh shit - ive been implicated in the crime now I was only trying to keep up

Alice · 01 May 2006, 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by roycruse

Oh shit - ive been implicated in the crime now I was only trying to keep up

My Gps wouldn't flash up, I thought we were doing 8knts

What's your excuse?

Jeff Pike · 01 May 2006, 21:20

Popped down to the river for a potter about just before Easter. Guy at the boat yard was telling me he got fined a couple of years ago. Caught doing 24 in a 5mph zone. Evidence was a photo taken by a fisherman. Encouraged to photograph speeding boats. Get paid £400 by the authorities for each photo leading to a prosecution/fine. The fine is £500 - so self funding. Tried to appeal - difficult with a photo showing him up on the plane! Don't know if they are still doing this but won't be trying to find out. Having been nearly swamped once by some drunken lout on Windemere I quite agree with it.

DGR · 02 May 2006, 11:12

Yeah, I got knocked off the back of my RIB by a speeding nobba on Easter weekend. I was checking my outdrive leg and prop on the mooring when he blasted past, and I couldn't get back into the boat before I was hit by a 3 foot wave. Luckily I was harnessed on, so technically I didn't go for a swim........filled my wellies tho'.

Whilst there are arguments about noise and wash, to me it's more the speed that's the problem. A RIB just on the plane doesn't cause much wash, or that much engine noise, but if in confined waters and you hit something/someone...not good. The faster you go, the less time you have to act.........IMHO......especially when there are other, faster things out there that simply don't look!!

D...