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Old 28 August 2011, 18:32   #1
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Eco Powerboat (can there be such a thing)

Saw mention of this up on another site. I can't figure out whether the boat has been built yet from the website however it looks like a beast !

Linley Swan GP - The world
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Old 29 August 2011, 01:47   #2
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Made from natural resins and bamboo, nice.
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Old 29 August 2011, 02:21   #3
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2400hp
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Old 29 August 2011, 02:45   #4
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Yes www.circumnavigationrecord.com 95% recyclable aluminium using 50% less fuel than conventonal boats. I am always "wary" of Eco things. The owners of the projects never add to their figures the planning and building carbon costs to get to the stage that their product is Eco friendly. Alan P
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Old 29 August 2011, 03:54   #5
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Made from natural resins and bamboo, nice.
I think you'll find some of those products will be used in the building of the boat - they are also Carbon Positive - in other words they are paying a fiver more than Carbon Neutral!

Not built yet but they are aiming for Cowes Monte Carlo in 2013.
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Old 29 August 2011, 08:31   #6
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Yes www.circumnavigationrecord.com 95% recyclable aluminium using 50% less fuel than conventonal boats. I am always "wary" of Eco things. The owners of the projects never add to their figures the planning and building carbon costs to get to the stage that their product is Eco friendly. Alan P
Hi Alan, Hope your well and exciting to see your project moving forward!

We offset our complete carbon footprint, both in the production of the boat and the complete running of the team (trucks, unit, support cars, mould production etc etc) We use a offsetting firm and they calculate our footprint, we then offset 50% more than we use.

We are working with a leading university and a Formula 1 facility to produce as much as we can in an eco and green way. A large proportion of the boat will be built out of Porscher Greenlite, a natural fibre composite. We are also using eco based poxy resins where we can too. The F1 facility is also working on new exhaust systems etc to help collect carbon and lower the CO2 out of the engine. We also are using Saltron in the fuel to clean the diesel, I believe you used the product before? They claim it will help run the engines better, resulting in lowering fuel consumption and emmissions, whether that happens in the real world with this boat is yet to be seen.

The boat will run 4x480hp Cummins Diesels that are being modified by a world leading F1 engine builder, they will be uprated with better cooling and ECU's to run 600hp each, the boat will run on Arneson drives and use twin rudder steering. If all goes to plan she will be a great marathon boat indeed.

We hope to start production of the plugs/moulds in the next month or so. I an ideal world, I would like to be on the water sometime next summer so we can test next winter and get time in the boat, ready for Monaco. She is designed purely for big ocean marathon endurance events.

If all goes to plan, there should be exciting times ahead. I will be holding an opening day once she is built where all can view her. I would like her to be at RIBEX next year, but we shall see.

Kind Regards

Tom
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Old 29 August 2011, 11:22   #7
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Hi Tom.
I am well thanks. Yours is an interesting concept it's very radical. I have a little difficulty accepting that running 4 x 600 engines flat out relates to an Eco theme but best of luck anyway. Alan P
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Old 29 August 2011, 11:49   #8
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I understand where you come from on this. However I want to run a 50ft hull in the Cowes-Monaco race, to do this with any speed you need to be in class A or B, so rather than running big V8 petrols or 3 larger 8.3 Cummins I have chosen to run 5.9s and be as green and eco as we can at this level of the sport, by all means I am not saying we are as green as I would like to think, but we like to think we lead the way in the classes we will race in, having a balance between performance and eco concerns. The boat is designed completely from scratch to take the four engines and is a bespoke build, therefore the engine room accommodates this. This will help with reliablity also, as over the 2400miles we want to run with as many break downs as possible. running on 3 engines we should still be able to maintain a good average speed to at least finish that leg.

Best of luck with your project, cant to see it once she is complete. Once we have built our boat, it would be my pleasure for you to take the wheel!

Best Regards

Tom
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Old 29 August 2011, 13:24   #9
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This will help with reliablity also, as over the 2400miles we want to run with as many break downs as possible. running on 3 engines we should still be able to maintain a good average speed to at least finish that leg.
Tom, I'm not sure if there is a typo in there or not?

Obviously with 4 engines you are 4x as likely to develop a fault in one of them as with a single. I guess what you are saying is that you are planning that "in" so you can still run on 3. You are still statistically just as likely to loose 2 engines on one leg as a twin set up is to loose one of its engines.

I'm impressed by your confidence: running engines way beyond their normal limits tuned by F1 guys who normally only run engines for a couple of hours (and still blow them up). On a quite variable fuel source. In my limited understanding of these races is it not usually the most reliable boat that wins rather than the one with the most power?

Of course in measuring the most "eco" boat you probably want to consider its "whole life cost (environmentally)". Any boat made from resin (regardless of the resin's original source) is essentially a disposal nightmare. I guess IF she proves to be a winning boat it might have a reasonably life - but if she proves to be average, she might not. She's hardly likely to find a "leisure" use once she retires. If you're a tree hugger thats a lot of waste for a couple of races.

Any eco folk want to buy a boat made completely from recycled carrier bags Comes with oars if you don't want to use the 2 smoke on the back...
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Old 29 August 2011, 13:35   #10
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Will a 6BT hold together for any length of time at that power output?
The 480 is already the HO version of the 24V B series, and only recomended by cummins for "non commercial use" with max power limited to 1 hour in 8
and for use in boats doing less than 500 hours per year. I read this as its going to blow up just a question of when!
Theres only so much abuse even a 6bt will take. I suppose with plenty of well cold seawater cooled air and synthetic oil it stands a chance, but theres only so much heat a piston can take before it melts, and only so much pressure an oil film can take before it breaks down.
Has the 24V cummins been dyno'd at 600HP continuous and survived??

just curious, theyre a fantastic engine and if anything can take it they will.
I would like one in a pac 22 my mate already put a 6bt 12v 210 in his landrover
I LIKE THE ECO BIT 30 GPH PER ENGINE FANTASTIC!!!
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Old 29 August 2011, 14:17   #11
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Tom,

With regards to the fuel you are running when you say Biodiesel do you mean the "proper" stuff made from crops or a blend of fossil and crop? I know from running biodiesel for a while in my VW that it was definately down on power compared to fossil and considering you are trying to push 600HP out of the Cummins could that cause you some problems?

Hope your well and looks like you will be having a lot of fun if all goes to plan. !

Chris
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Old 29 August 2011, 15:02   #12
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Thank you for your interest. Yes you are right, we are just as prone to an engine, grearbox or drive breakdown as anyone else. However we have tried to build as bulletproof package as we can in such a harsh operating condition. I believe we have as close to this package as we can, not only myself but a team of very experienced consultants and engineers are working closely on this to see it a success.

Although I cannot state at this time the tuning motorsport firm they have heavy involvement in F1, WRC, Les Mans and the Paris-Dakar. Their brief is to produce an extremely reliable engine using the Cummins block. Although I am not an engineer, I know a long list of forged and special parts are planned.

Proof of four engines working was at a previous Cowes Torquay race where Buzzi had engine problems on his forth FPT, he was able to run on three and still maintain good speed. I have found when talking to others and from my own experience that the FPT unit, although fantastic on paper is having real problems with cooling. Some at race speeds not getting past 4 hours! I would prefer not to have this expense. Ofcourse, there will be a lot of testing over the next 12 months to create the right package, I am sure the end result will differ from what we have right now, but we have to start that evolutionary process.

I plan to race this RIB for many years to come and she has been designed for this. She will be my pride and joy and I hope for her to be the key contender in marathon events. However we have a long road ahead and many months ahead of work before we get there. This is my full time project now.

Continuing the green eco theme however, we plan to use the boat as a test bed down the line with the UIM for greener technologies. We are talking with a technology body for this. I like to think that racing in Class A, we will be the greenest, most eco conscious team.

She is a significant step on the way to producing a product thatís as environmentally friendly and carbon neutral as possible. It is, however, a high performance competition machine so progress must be relatively conservative. The percentage of Ďbioí will be increased as the materials themselves develop further and we become ever more familiar with them. Our philosophy in every instance is to use sustainable alternatives wherever possible, not only in the boat itself but in its manufacture. I am very keen to see how the bio products compare to traditional composites and resins.

This boat will breakdown at some point while we are racing, itís a complicated beast and at the speeds we will be doing, the stresses on all the craft and its equipment will be large indeed. However, we are forming a fantastic team of people and the preparation is key. We have access to the state of the art support vehicles etc and the best mechanics, so overall we hope that over the long distance races we should be able to finish. If we finish we hope to be high up in the rankings. I have great confidence in my designers and am enjoying this process of learning and discovery new things every day. Itís a great privilege and canít wait to be at the helm of this very fast RIB.

Re fuel, we are in comunication with the UIM on what we are allowed to run, once this is clear and in writing and the boat is built, we will then test the engines full in real world situations to see how she performs, if we did run B100(Full Bio) over B10 (10% bio) we would need to modify the engines accordingly, however we are in close contact with Cummins UK and the states and have built this into our timeline before Cowes-Monaco. I will have more answers when we have tested further. At the moment my focus is working closely with my team to get the moulds CNC'd on the 5 axis machine and the boat in build. That is when the fun begins, hence why I personally have kept the project off forums until my plans are in hardware format. Once she is underway however I will keep you in the loop. As you can understand it is a very long and expensive process so it will take time.

If all goes to plan I would like to be racing at Cowes next year. I hope you can all view her when sheís finished.
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Old 30 August 2011, 12:03   #13
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The planned look of the RIB.
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Old 30 August 2011, 12:22   #14
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Re fuel, we are in comunication with the UIM on what we are allowed to run, once this is clear and in writing and the boat is built, we will then test the engines full in real world situations to see how she performs, if we did run B100(Full Bio) over B10 (10% bio) we would need to modify the engines accordingly, however we are in close contact with Cummins UK and the states and have built this into our timeline before Cowes-Monaco. I will have more answers when we have tested further.
At least here in the States there would be no modifications necessary for a leisure auto. Although the bio is slightly less dense and thus for a given injection volume you get a few percentage points less power. Are you thinking that the injectors would be specifically tuned for biodiesel? (pressure, volume and/or spray pattern? or something else entirely?)
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Old 30 August 2011, 12:44   #15
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At least here in the States there would be no modifications necessary for a leisure auto. Although the bio is slightly less dense and thus for a given injection volume you get a few percentage points less power. Are you thinking that the injectors would be specifically tuned for biodiesel? (pressure, volume and/or spray pattern? or something else entirely?)
The engines will be run on Bio fuel without specific modification for the fuel first, after then trials will be made with injector changes and as you say pressure and patterns ect to see the best results, however I leave it to my very experienced mechanics and Cummins to provide myself with the results. We will then run the best package which provides the best reliablity and performance.
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