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Old 28 August 2019, 09:17   #1
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Trailer wheel size, Land Rover?

Iím going to need to do something about my trailer whilst Iím recommissioning the boat over the winter.

I know itís going to need 4 sets of brake shoes and all the other mechanisms inside the hubs, possibly drums as well.
It will also almost certainly need 4 sets of bearings and seals, and probably at least two of the 4 (5 inc spare) wheels changed as Iíve noticed the backs are very corroded.

I will probably end up just ordering a couple of new 1300Kg axles from M&E, as taking into account the resale value of used axles Iíve found it cheaper in the past than ordering all the small parts independently.
Itís also a much quicker, and cleaner, process to swap axles than strip and rebuild 4 sets of brakes etc.
Itís something Iíve done a few times over the years on mine and otherís trailers.

But if Iím ordering new axles I might consider changing to a more commonly available wheel and tyre size.
The current wheels have a 5 stud pattern on a 6Ē PCD, Iíve found in the past they are not commonly available and are expensive because of that.
It also limits options to use a nice set of Alloy car wheels as only Rolls Royce and Old Bedford Vans share the PCD/ Pattern.

I can get new drums, or even the old ones, machined to accept whatever PCD and centre bore I choose, so my consideration is going to be whatís readily available.

Iím considering going for Land Rover Discovery 3/4 stud pattern, as wheels are readily available used, a D3/4 HSE weighs in at 2.7Tns so the wheels are built to take the weight, and lastly Iíll be towing with a D4 anyway so Iíll actually have one spare on the car and one on the trailer which are fully interchangeable.
I know some machining of the hubs will be required to fit the D3/4 centre bore, and I havenít yet considered if the D3/4 wheels centre bore is big enough to fit Bearing savers to the hubs.
I also know that I might have to use Defender wheels because the centre bore is much larger.

Iím also still determined to come up with a homebrew Disc Brake conversion at some point that meets all the auto-reverse legal requirements, and being able to use Land Rover parts to base the conversion on later would be useful.

Has anyone tried converting an indespension based trailer to Land Rover wheels.?

Ta

Nasher.
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Old 28 August 2019, 09:40   #2
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I'd go with the standard 13" rims.
Reduce the height of the outfit and make launching & recovery easier.
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Old 29 August 2019, 03:03   #3
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I think you should make a statement and go with Rolls Royce wheels
Might be a tad hiigh, don't think Rollers drop below a 20" wheel!.

Wouldn't more standard 13" or 14" rims be better?
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Old 29 August 2019, 03:56   #4
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I would go with Hubs with M16 5 stud 6.5”PCD as they are the same as ifor Williams trailers with means a wide range of heavy duty wheel and tyres are available of the shelf.
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Old 29 August 2019, 05:51   #5
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I would go with Hubs with M16 5 stud 6.5ĒPCD as they are the same as ifor Williams trailers with means a wide range of heavy duty wheel and tyres are available of the shelf.
That's a great tip, thanks.

Last tango, Lakelandterrier, you are right to be worried about the extra height.

The current wheels are 14Ē, and the boat does already sit very high on the trailer because of itís very deep V hull.

A D3/4 19Ē wheel with a 255/55 x 19 tyre has a total diameter of @760mm

The trailer tyres are 185/65 x 14 so work out just under 600mm OD

So in theory the axle will sit @80mm higher, which isnít a lot but might be significant.

On the other hand, on my D3 I had to have the tow ball on the fixed towbar bracket bolted on quite low to get the trailer level and both axles of the trailer similarly loaded, so a slightly taller trailer would enable me to raise it up a notch.

Iíll have to investigate the size of a standard Defender wheel and tyre.

Nasher.
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Old 29 August 2019, 06:35   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasher View Post
That's a great tip, thanks.

Last tango, Lakelandterrier, you are right to be worried about the extra height.

The current wheels are 14Ē, and the boat does already sit very high on the trailer because of itís very deep V hull.

A D3/4 19Ē wheel with a 255/55 x 19 tyre has a total diameter of @760mm

The trailer tyres are 185/65 x 14 so work out just under 600mm OD

So in theory the axle will sit @80mm higher, which isnít a lot but might be significant.

On the other hand, on my D3 I had to have the tow ball on the fixed towbar bracket bolted on quite low to get the trailer level and both axles of the trailer similarly loaded, so a slightly taller trailer would enable me to raise it up a notch.

Iíll have to investigate the size of a standard Defender wheel and tyre.

Nasher.
Defenders normally run 16's, smallest tyre 205, PCD 5 x 165
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Old 29 August 2019, 07:23   #7
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So in theory the axle will sit @80mm higher, which isnít a lot but might be significant.
On a fairly standard 1:8 slipway you'll have to move the trailer back another 64 cm to get the same depth of water. Problem obviously worse on shallower slips.
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Old 29 August 2019, 07:27   #8
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<<<So in theory the axle will sit @80mm higher, which isnít a lot but might be significant.>>>
Typical 1:8 ramp is going to mean backing up about an extra 0.5 - 1 mtr to get the same buoyancy. (more on a shallow ramp.). You'll know yourself if that's going to cause a problem.

With a 4 wheel trailer I'd have thought the loading wouldn't need anything special by way of tires.
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Old 29 August 2019, 09:19   #9
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Good points guys.

Ref tyre load ratings, tyres are probably going to be the easy bit, but surprisingly there could be some issues with the wheels.
I know that certain Range Rover wheels that fit are not recommended for use on the heavier D3/4 because they are not rated for the load.

The trailer axles are currently 1300KG rated each so I really need to put wheels on that are rated for the 2.6tns. The d3/4 ones are because the car itself is 2.7Tns.
I’d like to upgrade to 1500Kg axles which adds another dimension to the wheels issue.

Lots for me to think about, and will probably end up with me looking back at specific trailer steel wheels again.

The two slips I use most are the camber in Portsmouth, and the upper ferry public slip in Dartmouth.

TNR doesn’t float off at either as she sits very high on the trailer.
I adjusted the rollers outwards as much as I dare, but the keel sits just inches above the axles now.
I’ve got used to getting her rear end wet then driving her off and back on the trailer.

Nasher.
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Old 29 August 2019, 14:53   #10
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You can run 4x 12 inch wheels with load ratings of 900 kg each ,(maybe slightly less on twins ) on your desired pcd , alternately you can choose from a number of pcd,s and buy low profile 12 " wheels that will fit under mudguaurds fitted for trailers with old fashioned 10 " wheels ,more of a price study than anything to work out the best way forward ,especially if you are choosing new axles
on a completely different angle "have you seen the ally axels from the rolllerbunk man in exeter ? "
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185-60R12...cAAOSwkqZcpJYI
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRAILER-A...8AAOSw1pxZ0LnP
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Old 29 August 2019, 16:48   #11
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Thanks OB the Ally axles look very interesting.

I would like to keep larger diameter wheels, especially as I plan to rack up the miles again on trips to the West Country.

Being an old fashioned type engineer I always see the smaller diameter wheels as running at far greater rotational speeds than larger ones for the same road speed, spinning the bearings a lot quicker and generating more heat in the tyres, bearings seals etc.

The whole assembly leads a much easier life at slower rotational speeds.

Nasher.
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Old 30 August 2019, 04:20   #12
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Being an old fashioned type engineer I always see the smaller diameter wheels as running at far greater rotational speeds than larger ones for the same road speed, spinning the bearings a lot quicker and generating more heat in the tyres, bearings seals etc.
But you will only be driving at the lower speed limit wont you

Presumably however since trailer wheels are "normally" c.10-12" then the bearings are intended to spin at that speed? The tyres must be. People with well maintained 10" trailers don't have unexplained failures.
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Old 03 November 2019, 03:49   #13
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Resale value of old axles?
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Old 31 March 2020, 05:31   #14
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I did eventually make a decision on this, probably one I'm going to regret

I really want to go Alloy wheels on the trailer, but also wanted ones in a common PCD that I could pick up cheaply and easily on EBAY if I need them in the future.

From research it appears that many Japanese 4x4s use a 6 x 139.7mm(5.5Ē) PCD with @ a 100mm centre hole.
This is ideal for my requirements and Iíve purchased the beauties below including delivery for £125.
I always liked this Shogun wheel when I had them on my 2.8LWB Shogun years ago.
There are loads of them and other styles available at great prices in this PCD, all I need is to find another as a spare, but wonít do that until Iím happy I can make them work.

Itís still a shame that matching wheels from my D4 wonít work because of the small centre hole in them.

To spread the cost Iím going to hopefully put off buying new axles for another year and rebuild the existing brake assemblies again. The old axles will be worth more when I sell them next year as well.

My only worry is that in theory the tyres will be quite close to the trailer chassis rails with the existing axles, but Iím a bit stuffed with measuring that until I can have access to the boat/trailer again. I can specify wider axles hub face to hub face when I buy new ones.

Iím lucky enough to have access to a really good CNC machine shop through work who I trust to be able to re-drill my existing brake drums to the new pattern.

With regard to the larger diameter of them, Iím just going to see how it works, but if it comes to it I can fit lower profile tyres to the wheels to reduce them in diameter.

Nasher.
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Old 01 April 2020, 03:01   #15
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My only worry is that in theory the tyres will be quite close to the trailer chassis rails with the existing axles, but I’m a bit stuffed with measuring that until I can have access to the boat/trailer again.
I realised last night that having prepared to get the new axles I have the measurements for them, both between the mounting points and between the hub faces.
The good news is having measured the wheels I’ll still have 75mm of clearance between the chassis rails and the inner edge of the tyres.

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I I’m lucky enough to have access to a really good CNC machine shop through work who I trust to be able to re-drill my existing brake drums to the new pattern.
I did a quick drawing of the old and new stud patterns last night and have realised that re-drilling the old hubs just won’t be possible as there is always one old and new hole that are overlapping and another couple that are too close to be safe.
And all three of those are adjacent, not spread around.

I’ll have to either order my new axles sooner than I hoped, or consider finding some drums with a different existing stud pattern to re-drill.

I am supposed to be working from home, so better try to forget this and do some work!

Nasher
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Old 01 April 2020, 04:43   #16
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But you will only be driving at the lower speed limit wont you



Presumably however since trailer wheels are "normally" c.10-12" then the bearings are intended to spin at that speed? The tyres must be. People with well maintained 10" trailers don't have unexplained failures.


Iíve never owned a trailer, boat or otherwise with ďnormalĒ 12Ē wheels. Theyíve always been min 13Ē
I think (and I could be wrong) that braked hubs require a min 13Ē wheel to physically fit the brake gubbins.
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Old 01 April 2020, 05:30   #17
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It just makes so much sense to me to use the biggest wheels you can to reduce the rotational speed and hence the heat build up etc.

A bigger wheel will have an easier time of it compared to a small wheel no matter what speed you are doing.

Nasher.
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Old 01 April 2020, 05:48   #18
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It just makes so much sense to me to use the biggest wheels you can to reduce the rotational speed and hence the heat build up etc.

A bigger wheel will have an easier time of it compared to a small wheel no matter what speed you are doing.

Nasher.


Yup
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