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03 May 2004, 18:32
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#1
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Gloucestershire
Boat name: Zulu
Make: Humber oceanpro
Length: 5m +
Engine: 75 Etec
MMSI: 235016713
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 168
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WAAS - is it working yet
My garmin 182c has been struggling to find the WAAS signal - having searched the net some sites say that Europe is enabled and some say it is still only available in the US. Is anyone reading it? I have recently cut and joined the cable and wondering whether this may have affected it - still reading other satellites strongly though.
Alex
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03 May 2004, 18:37
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#2
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Member
Country: Ireland
Town: Carigaline/Baltimore
Boat name: XS-600
Make: XS-Ribs
Length: 6m +
Engine: Merc Optimax 150 XL
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 682
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Was reading WAAS today around Cape Clear & Fastnet Rock, at least I think I was anyway. Was on my friends Tornado, using a Lowrance Chartplotter and when we were returning to Baltimore the unit alarm went off saying "WAAS signal lost". I suppose this means that we had a WAAS signal all day, but lost it as we entered the Harbour.
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Steve G
If In Doubt, Go Flat Out!!
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03 May 2004, 18:40
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#3
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Newport IoW
Boat name: Amean/Pronto/Rumbo
Make: Solent Rib Princess
Length: 7m +
Engine: 200hp Etec 260x 2
MMSI: lots of them
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,861
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Tim Griffin
RYA Freelance YMI power Powerboat and PWC instructor trainer vhf first aid sea survival Diesel engine radar and navigation instructor
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03 May 2004, 20:25
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#4
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Penzance
Boat name: Dark Angel
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5.85
Engine: Mariner 90HP Four Stroke
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 116
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I've had a couple of fishing boats using it for about a month now with no probs reported, it seems very stable although i'm not sure if it's offically on yet.
Mark
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04 May 2004, 08:50
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#5
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Member
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Oban
Boat name: RIB Tickle
Make: Humber Assault
Length: 5.3m
Engine: Yamaha 60ETO,Tohatsu 3.5
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 371
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I have been using it since last Oct. do lose the satellites now and again and I have been led to believe it is only sats numbered above 30 that are equipped.
When I do get it it is very accurate
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https://www.argylldiving.btinternet.co.uk
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04 May 2004, 12:02
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#6
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Great Harwood, Lancs
Boat name: Tigger II
Make: Bombardier Aerodeck
Length: 3m +
Engine: Tohatsu 25HP
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 626
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Likewise
Was out this weekend and had WAAS shown all day.
Have been using it for a few months now.
Cant say its their 100% of the time but whenever I have had my plotter on its been their.
Regards Gary
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05 May 2004, 07:15
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#7
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Newport IoW
Boat name: Amean/Pronto/Rumbo
Make: Solent Rib Princess
Length: 7m +
Engine: 200hp Etec 260x 2
MMSI: lots of them
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,861
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your set is WAAS enabled so it will show reading WAAS how ever it needs the ground stations to bring the level of accuracy down to 5 metres check out the sites above , Egnos is the EUROPEAN version of WAAS but not active, as yet
regards tim
www.griffmarineservices.co.uk
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Tim Griffin
RYA Freelance YMI power Powerboat and PWC instructor trainer vhf first aid sea survival Diesel engine radar and navigation instructor
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09 May 2004, 19:40
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#8
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Great Harwood, Lancs
Boat name: Tigger II
Make: Bombardier Aerodeck
Length: 3m +
Engine: Tohatsu 25HP
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 626
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Garmin Misleading ??
While I dont dispute Tims posts I spent some time today playing with my plotter.
The way the plotter performs gives every indication that WAAS is active & being used.
On powerup the plotter shows "Searching for WAAS"
After a while it changes to show "Using WAAS" and the type of navigation shows "3D Differential"
Now this gives me evey indication that the plotter is using WAAS.
If this is not the case then Garmin wants their wrist slapping as the information is very misleading !!.
Either this or WAAS is working ?.
Can anyone at Garmin comment ?.
Regards Gary
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09 May 2004, 22:24
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#9
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Member
Country: UK - Scotland
Make: HumberOceanOffshore
Length: 8m +
Engine: Volvo KAD300/DPX
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 5,596
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Some while ago, before waas was active, my garmin looked for it, it never found it (of course), but it continued to look. It worked normally throughout. I'd say, you are in business. Let us know what sort of accuracy you are managing to get.
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JW.
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10 May 2004, 07:09
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#10
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Newport IoW
Boat name: Amean/Pronto/Rumbo
Make: Solent Rib Princess
Length: 7m +
Engine: 200hp Etec 260x 2
MMSI: lots of them
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,861
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Hi Garygee
my set is WAAS enabled ie can read WAAS and my set reads 3d
i point you in the direction of www.garmin.com/aboutGPS/waas.html
if you open it , it will explain that although WAAS enabled your set needs the ground stations(and the two geostationary sattelites orbiting the equator) to bring the level of accuracy down to 3 metres currently
only available in North America the EUROPEAN version EGNOS is not currently active how it works and i hope im not teaching granny to suck eggs
here and if i am apologise now, the sattelites orbit the earth sending signal
to a ground station that corrects the time signal abit like a diferential gps
this brings the accuracy down to 3 metres basically ground stations(25) over America a wide area augmented system receive the signal and correct it before re transmitting to the two geostationary sattelites before it goes to our GPS ,in europe we will get a european geostationary
navigation overlay system that is the same as the Americans
working on the ground stations sending corrected signals to our GPS
this i am told is not operational yet but is expected to come on line soon
2/3 years hope this explains it for you, but do check the sites they are excellent,
regards tim
www.griffmarineservices.co.uk
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Tim Griffin
RYA Freelance YMI power Powerboat and PWC instructor trainer vhf first aid sea survival Diesel engine radar and navigation instructor
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10 May 2004, 12:06
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#11
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Great Harwood, Lancs
Boat name: Tigger II
Make: Bombardier Aerodeck
Length: 3m +
Engine: Tohatsu 25HP
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 626
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Hi Tim
Yes I understand how GPS & WAAS works, which is not disimilar to the old differental GPS but without a second receiver.
I have done some digging with some of my contacts (I am a design engineer with a company that designs GPS, GSM & GPRS technology) and can report the following.
WAAS IS ACTIVE, but only as a test signal.
The signal is present but not sending data which can be used for navigation yet.
This means that GPS's will report the presence of WAAS but will not increase their accuracy yet !.
This is not reported much as at present WAAS adds nothing.
Hope this clears thing up.
Regards Gary
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10 May 2004, 12:34
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#12
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Gloucestershire
Boat name: Zulu
Make: Humber oceanpro
Length: 5m +
Engine: 75 Etec
MMSI: 235016713
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 168
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So, if WAAS is present as a test signal - will garmin pick up egnos instead? or is a software update/ change to UK spec away from WAAS required.
Seems to be a lot of confusion - maybe just mine!
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10 May 2004, 18:30
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#13
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Newport IoW
Boat name: Amean/Pronto/Rumbo
Make: Solent Rib Princess
Length: 7m +
Engine: 200hp Etec 260x 2
MMSI: lots of them
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,861
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Quote:
WAAS IS ACTIVE, but only as a test signal.
The signal is present but not sending data which can be used for navigation yet.
This means that GPS's will report the presence of WAAS but will not increase their accuracy yet !.
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glad we both agree on that then, so when do your sources say EGNOS is coming on line , and good point raised do we need a software update.
regards tim
www.griffmarineservices.co.uk
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Tim Griffin
RYA Freelance YMI power Powerboat and PWC instructor trainer vhf first aid sea survival Diesel engine radar and navigation instructor
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11 May 2004, 08:38
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#14
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Member
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Cardiff
Make: Humber Destroyer 5.5
Length: 5m +
Engine: 90hp OB
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 499
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I'm not sure if this is correct or just chinese whispers but I vaguely remember hearing that having WAAS switched on but not receiving a signal can actual degrade the accuracy of the normal GPS signal. Hence if there is no signal it is better to run with it switched off.
Additionally something I know is correct is that WAAS will not work if your unit is in battery save mode (im guessing this only affects handheld units).
Cheers
Mike
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11 May 2004, 12:11
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#15
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Gloucestershire
Boat name: Zulu
Make: Humber oceanpro
Length: 5m +
Engine: 75 Etec
MMSI: 235016713
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 168
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Not sure if one can actually "switch off" the WAAS on the garmin 182c. In which case if I am "receiving" WAAS it is more inaccurate than not!?!
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11 May 2004, 13:01
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#16
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Member
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Barmouth
Boat name: Blue Marlin
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 7m +
Engine: Yanmar 315/Bravo 2X
MMSI: 235020218
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 827
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WAAS Accuracy
My understanding is that with WAAS just putting out a carrier signal, it just means that the GPS thinks (or indicates) that it is more accurate, but is in fact no more accurate than if you had WAAS switched off. I don't see why it should be any less accurate than a standard (non WAAS) system.
Incidentally, I don't know this for a fact - but someone did try to explain it to me the other day - and it sounded reasonable.
Dylan...
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12 May 2004, 12:37
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#17
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Great Harwood, Lancs
Boat name: Tigger II
Make: Bombardier Aerodeck
Length: 3m +
Engine: Tohatsu 25HP
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 626
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Hi folks
Well their I cant find out any actual dates but have the following !.
Initial tests of EGNOS was using a specially-equipped Inmarsat satellite.
Cant find out if this is what we are seeing or its the actual satalites.
I suspect the actual satalites by now.
The first test signal was on Friday 6 June 2003 and we should have a full system working very soon. The system was supposed to go live Spring 2004 with the operational readiness review in April 2004 . Assuming it conforms it should go live very soon after
If I get any actual go live dates I will post them.
Regards Gary
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17 May 2004, 21:45
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#18
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Gloucestershire
Boat name: Zulu
Make: Humber oceanpro
Length: 5m +
Engine: 75 Etec
MMSI: 235016713
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 168
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Out this evening and still struggling to get a WAAS signal - test or not
I have cut and rejoined the antennae cable and hoping this is not responsible. Getting good reception of satellites otherwise.
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18 May 2004, 17:34
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#19
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Member
Country: UK - Channel Islands
Town: A large rock
Boat name: La Frette
Make: Osprey Vipermax
Length: 6m +
Engine: 200 Suzzy
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,893
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Hmmmm. Not sure whether this is right or not, but have just been having a play with my GPS in the garden (GPSMap 76).
If I turn on WAAS enabled I suddenly get two new satelites appear in the sky (Nos. 33 & 44). Would I be right in saying these might be the Egnos sats? They dissapear again if I disable WAAS. Doesn't make the blindest bit of difference to the accuracy mind you. Didn't manage to lock onto them though!
Also, a few times last year I remember the sat strength bar showed a little 'D' symbol at the bottom and the display showed '3D Differential'. Might this have been the WAAS/Egnos actually working. I think accuracy went down to less 10' at the time.
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18 May 2004, 19:30
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#20
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Newport IoW
Boat name: Amean/Pronto/Rumbo
Make: Solent Rib Princess
Length: 7m +
Engine: 200hp Etec 260x 2
MMSI: lots of them
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,861
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EGNOS test signal comes on june 2004 they are now going to link it to Gallileo
test signal 2005 operational 2008
WAAS is for the benifit of the federal aviation authority so planes can fly/land
better knock on effect is maritime benifits for greater accuracy ie down to 3 metres but only if you are in America see www.rin.org.uk great site and info
on their for the tech heads
regards tim
www.griffmarineservices.co.uk
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Tim Griffin
RYA Freelance YMI power Powerboat and PWC instructor trainer vhf first aid sea survival Diesel engine radar and navigation instructor
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