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Old 21 July 2004, 11:56   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel TD5
MANOS

IS GREECE PART OF THE EU IF SO WHY IS IT NOT RED LIKE IT SHOULD BE

DAN
Don't know Dan Ask the Greek Fire Brigade

On the RIBs that we hire out we have the red ones (which by the way are cheaper about Euro 35.00 each and 3kg ) but on my boat I have the SS like that one. It was all surveyed and I got the the stamp so I guess is OK.
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Old 21 July 2004, 15:39   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jono
Err.. read my post again..."The point is it is good for what it was designed for, not in titchy quantities in extinguishers."

Please, if you're going to lecture and/or correct me, which is fine by me, at least take the time to read the post fully.
and before you tell me I'm wrong for slagging off AFFF, the thread was about fire extinguishers on RIBS, not other places, in hand held units. Maybe in quantity sure but as hand held units, they stink, i have seen far too many cars dissapear!

"putting" out the fire after a crash

six litres of AFFF later putting out a fire on a dizzy
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Old 21 July 2004, 16:48   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Stevens
and before you tell me I'm wrong for slagging off AFFF, the thread was about fire extinguishers on RIBS, not other places, in hand held units. Maybe in quantity sure but as hand held units, they stink, i have seen far too many cars dissapear!

"putting" out the fire after a crash

six litres of AFFF later putting out a fire on a dizzy
...then why did you/they use AFFF extinguishers? Why not use DP?.. and you are wrong for slagging off AFFF when you actually mean AFFF extinguishers used for fighting fires on Autos/boats. Believe me as a serving Firefighter with two motorways going through my patch, I had to deal with more than a few car fires in my life and I was only correcting your comment that AFFF was useless. Wrong. AFFF is great. AFFF extinguishers are fine in their place, that is as "upgraded" water/gas extinguishers, not as firefighting media for car/boat fires So why are the "marshals" on rallies useing AFFF extinguishers? Cost? Legislation? Lack of knowledge? Lack of proper equipment? Enlighten me.....
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Old 21 July 2004, 17:19   #34
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i did not start this thread slag off AFFF or any fire fighting method

as it as been pointed out that most fires are wireing related under the engine
cover i will check mine more to make sure nothing is rubbing

but we all must agree all ribs should have at least one fire extinguisher fitted
and the smallest should be at least 2kg dry foam or AFFF

maybe halon if you can nick one

dan
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Old 21 July 2004, 17:29   #35
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Motorsport in the UK is governed by the Motorsport Association (MSA) All rally cars running on an MSA logbook have to have a plumbed in unit spraying into the engine bay onto the induction/ignition area and a hand held unit for use by the drivers to put cockpit fires out.

You are not allowed to carry anything other than AFFF on a stage rally. EVERYONE is moaning that the stuff doesn't put the fires out they are having!

I quote from a road rally forum like ribnet:

Subject: motorsport fire ext. why foamy water?
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posted on 24-2-2004 at 07:14 PM

motorsport fire ext. why foamy water?

After using the minimum MSA size foamy water fire extinguishers (both hand held and plumbed in) on small vehicle fires I must say I'm NOT impressed. They don't last very long and their fire fighting ability doesn't seem to be that good. I would not like to rely on them on anything but a small fire.

I guess the ones carried in the car are there to give crews vital seconds to get out and not necessaraly save the car.

Is there a reason why dry powder or CO2 isn't used? Are these types any good? Were the old ones (now banned) any better?


Yet another one:

My comment comes following the recent demise of local, to me, Newark driver Barry Jordan whilst on the Mutiny Rally. (MN Page14).

Do any of our 'more in touch' members know what the likes of the MSA are doing to address these constant claims of the lack of extinguishing properties of AFFF.

These guys only had a small carb fire which took hold despite the plumped in system and 4 hand helds being used !!

I feel that I will not be the only one who feels a little anxious about this - I would like to think that those red bottles in my car would do the job.


So you see, we have to use them cos the LAW says so, yet there isn;t a single person who says it works, we are all miffed and want a change and it's onle when someone is trapped in their car burnt to death that they might look at it. Ok given the right machine/pump etc AFFF might work yet a hand held AFFF couldn't put out one of my farts!
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Old 21 July 2004, 17:33   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Stevens
..... Ok given the right machine/pump etc AFFF might work yet a hand held AFFF couldn't put out one of my farts!
So let's agree on three things then?

One -AFFF is not right for Auto/ small boat use.

Two - AFFF is good stuff in the right environment

Three - Your Farts must be special.....

P.s Brownie points for those who know how AFFF works and why "foam" is a mis-nomer....
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Old 21 July 2004, 17:34   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scary Des
I am sure a dive will be able to tell me the size of cylinder required for 300 ltr of CO2. Des
From memory they are pressured to 200 bar or abouts, so 1.5L

"P.s Brownie points for those who know how AFFF works and why "foam" is a mis-nomer"

What was astonishing was how effective it still was sometime after the foam had disappeared and the chemical still stopped ptrol from being re-lit.

Pete
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Old 21 July 2004, 17:38   #38
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Careful, 'cause CO2 is not gaseous under pressure, so the "normal" rules don't apply. You have to work on its "expansion" rate when turning from liquid to gas... buggered if I can remember what it is...
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Old 22 July 2004, 04:00   #39
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Andy is correct with regards motorsport fire fighting. AFFF is mandatory in speed motorsport events. It was due to become so at the end of 2000 but problems with AFFF or Zero 2000 postponed the ban untill the end of 2003, because some extinguishers failed to either go off or when thy did, failed in some cases to put out the fire. The MSA is still researching a replacement.

Jono
Am I correct in thinking AFFF is an additive (aqueous foaming agent) used with water. The extinguisher does not contain foam, it contains water which is mixed with AFFF to produce a foam blanket, thus restricting oxygen from reaching the fuel?
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Old 22 July 2004, 04:15   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jono
PANIC?..... always a good first move.... followed by running away?

P.s Good choice of engine.... What do you think of your Prosport?
Very pleased with it. Its my first rib, so I'm amazed by the seakeeping. Don't know how it compares to other makes (apart from price!) so living in blissful ignorance. Some say they are a bit flat in the bow, and I have already stuffed it a couple of times. Advice from other ribsters is give it more throttle and a bit more trim.
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