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Old 23 August 2016, 02:54   #31
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.....At the same time gps has only been publicly available for about 20 years. People have been safely boating for a good bit longer than that.......

I'd tend to disagree with that statement. Seafaring has always been a risky venture, just look at the 250,000 or so charted wrecks in UK waters, it's estimated that as many are still uncharted. Until the advent of electronic navigation, Loran, Decca, GPS etc, it took real skill & ability to determine your position. Modern GPS has largely reduced that to a video game. I would question how many of us on here have the genuine skills to navigate a passage in unfamiliar waters without some form of electronics. GPS has opened up navigation to the common man, & we still get it wrong, ships still sink, hit each other, run aground etc.


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Old 23 August 2016, 04:02   #32
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Well there are always risks yes. But in the 90s we still went boating and were not stopped by not having gps.
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Old 23 August 2016, 04:41   #33
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Well there are always risks yes. But in the 90s we still went boating and were not stopped by not having gps.
No but more people drowned Drowning Statistics - RoSPA
and I think fewer participated!
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Old 23 August 2016, 04:43   #34
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Well there are always risks yes. But in the 90s we still went boating and were not stopped by not having gps.
My first fishing trip in my uncles brand new 15' cabin boat and 25hp johnson engine in the 70's when i was about 12 yo we had 2 lifejackets and little else apart from a flask and sandwiches
We fished happily for years out of the Tyne Wear Tees & Northumberland coast, we did upgrade to a compass and a flashy depth sounder later on.We never came to grief & never needed the rescue services.
If we attempted to set off like that now we'd probably be ridiculed & my uncle arrested for endangering the life of a minor!
How things have changed!
I think safety equipment is all about what makes you comfortable and how far you are going from assistance,as others have said you will never cover every eventuality
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Old 23 August 2016, 05:11   #35
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My first fishing trip in my uncles brand new 15' cabin boat and 25hp johnson engine in the 70's when i was about 12 yo we had 2 lifejackets and little else apart from a flask and sandwiches
We fished happily for years out of the Tyne Wear Tees & Northumberland coast, we did upgrade to a compass and a flashy depth sounder later on.We never came to grief & never needed the rescue services.
If we attempted to set off like that now we'd probably be ridiculed & my uncle arrested for endangering the life of a minor!
How things have changed!
I think safety equipment is all about what makes you comfortable and how far you are going from assistance,as others have said you will never cover every eventuality

True, but we also venture further afield nowadays. When I first started diving it was in a 4m squidgy, we used to dive wrecks off Flambrough head & drag a grapnel to find them using shore transits. Now we are diving 20-30 miles offshore out of sight of land & using GPS. We regularly cross the Irish Sea for a night out in Dublin. I wouldn't have dreamed of doing any of this without current nav aids & safety gear.


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Old 23 August 2016, 05:11   #36
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The one thing that strikes me as a very possible issue for all of us, is capsize. I often wonder if we should be making our flares, spare comms, PLB etc, much more accessible from upside down. Anyone thought this through other than having a million devices hanging off each of us?
PLB - designed to be worn, not stowed. Bung it in a trouser pocket or on a lanyard from an LJ into a jacket pocket. Handheld VHF the same if operating solo.
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Old 23 August 2016, 07:25   #37
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Anyone considering buying a plb for use at sea might be better off using an Epirb as these are designed for water use where plb's are designed for land use. If it becomes law to carry one on your boat like many other parts of the world you are better off buying the right product for the job in the first place. What Types of PLB Are There? | Bushwalkers Wilderness Rescue Squad

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Old 23 August 2016, 07:43   #38
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Re: Vhf hand held vs fixed.

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Anyone considering buying a plb for use at sea might be better off using an Epirb as these are designed for water use where plb's are designed for land use. If it becomes law to carry one on your boat like many other parts of the world you are better off buying the right product for the job in the first place. What Types of PLB Are There? | Bushwalkers Wilderness Rescue Squad

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PLBs sold in the UK are intended for water use (in fact until recently it was technically "illegal" to use on land). I know what you are saying that a PLB requires held in the correct attitude to transmit effectively and that may be hard in poor conditions - however there is no way you could have a PLB on your person if you mob or capsize.

There is zero prospect of expires becoming compulsory in the UK during the lifetime of the current equipment/technology. Bear in mind that even life jackets don't need to be carried, never mind a vhf!

Even commercial vessels in the UK operating up to 60miles from shore don't need to carry epirbs.
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Old 23 August 2016, 16:30   #39
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On my motorbike, I tend to carry my phone and wallet in my jacket rather than in a tank bag. It means that if I crash and part company with the bike, I still have a chance to summon help. In the last resort, the wallet will help to identify me.

By the same token, I would imagine that firstly you want something on your person to try and raise help (PLB / HH VHF) and secondly something to help identify you should the worst happen. Can you get PLB's / EPIRB's that have hydrostatic operation i.e. when it floods it goes off, similar to a life jacket? I suppose the issue with that is accidental operation.

An EPIRB with hydrostatic release that stayed on the boat or one that operated off the kill cord (if it had a delay for when you accidentally operated it) would cover capsize and MOB.
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Old 23 August 2016, 16:49   #40
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PLBs are all manually activated. The risk of accidental activation and the resulting helicopter launch to investigate would probably result in a decision not to always launch... ...not something we want.

EPIRBs can be fitted with float free which will release the EPIRB from a holder using a hydrostatic type of release and then a water sensor that activates the alert. Not sure how robust they are for RIBs they are used on Fishing Boats etc. They are not fool proof. Its not tricky to get it caught on ropes etc. I'm not even sure it would release on a RIB as RIBs so rarely sink. Capsized it might not be deep enough unless it was on the A frame. Still a risk it surfaces into the void inside the RIB and that might not allow it to transmit and receive a position.

You definitely don't want it on the KC. Just gives another reason to not use the KC.

I'm not convinced if you are unconscious in the water that a PLB is likely to be that much value even if it worked. Lifejacket will float you, but unless you are in your speedos unlikely to do so properly. You really need a spray hood to keep the waves out your airway but I don't think any auto deploy the hood. There is a lag from activation to resources being sent caused by the technology and some initial investigation to see if you are at sea etc. Followed by a lag while the chopper gets to you and then finds you. I'd not give myself a lot of hope of being rescued and saved if I'm hanging in a life jacket unconscious for 90 minutes...
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