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Old 23 November 2007, 17:06   #61
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oh ok maybe I have the wrong end of the stick here, easily done I think its my age

The impression given, not just by you, was that you were not controlled by HMGC and were out on "patrol" and if you came across something you got stuck in.

So I take it you log on with HMGC when you are on the water via ch0 or ch 16 then are tasked to jobs in the same way that the RNLI or CILB would be?

Please do not think I was trying to have a pop or anything, I guess it was not clear on how you are tasked and under who's control you operate.

And am sure you could do a fine job at no 10, lets face it, it could not be much worse!

Cheers
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Old 23 November 2007, 17:21   #62
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Originally Posted by Jon Brooks View Post
oh ok maybe I have the wrong end of the stick here, easily done I think its my age

The impression given, not just by you, was that you were not controlled by HMGC and were out on "patrol" and if you came across something you got stuck in.

So I take it you log on with HMGC when you are on the water via ch0 or ch 16 then are tasked to jobs in the same way that the RNLI or CILB would be?

Please do not think I was trying to have a pop or anything, I guess it was not clear on how you are tasked and under who's control you operate.

And am sure you could do a fine job at no 10, lets face it, it could not be much worse!

Cheers
ummm yes and no,

We inform the coastguard everyday we are on, what boats are available and crews, we then spend the day with the boats on patrol, if an incident comes through on the radio we offer our assistance to the coastguard, stating our position and if we are "SAR Capable", they then can accept or decline our offer, if they accept we procced to the incident under thier co-ordination and undertake the task.

We inform them every step of the way what is happeing and what action we are taking.

When a mayday is heard out nearest boat is automaticaly diverted to the scene by OUR control room , the control room will then inform the coastguard that we have a boat on route should it be requested, they will normally be happy with this and ask us to do what we can to stabalise the situation untill a declared facility arrives, if declared facitlitis are already on scene, they will thank us and confirm we can stand down, boat will resume patrol.

If we come across an incident on patrol, we contact the coastguard to tell them what the situation is and what action we are taking, 90% of the time they let us get on with it, i.e tow a yacht of a sandbank, take a broken down cruiser in tow etc.

If they see fit, they will again ask us to stabalise the situation untill a declared unit arrives.

In the way of searches, we volunteer as an additional facility as the more oats you have to search, the better.

The coastguard will give us an area to search, and co-ordinate us as they would a normall unit, they will ask us to "check things out" etc.

We work well with the coatsguard, they are fully aware when we are on patrol and if we have a SAR capable crew on board, they cannot request our assistance, but we can offer under SOLAS 5, and they can accept,

sorry for the confusion, hope this clears it up??

any questions feel free to ask..
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Old 01 December 2007, 09:20   #63
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Reasons left RYA

Reason the Venturers left RYA and Joined the IYT (USA ) who have MCA
accreditation . We do not feel the RYA Level 2 to be taken in a 2 day
set course was sufficient for all the information and skills to be absorbed
especially when dealing with teenagers with no previous sea going experience.We had a pre-training of 1 year for level 1 and 2 years for level 2 , where we ran right through the RYA level 2 time and time again and in different
weather conditions. With a star chart when we felt the cadet had mastered
that part. That when confidence they had the sea hours and experience
we then set them the 2 day RYA Level .2 To which we also added our
own written exam. On our last inspection we were told this pre-training
was not allowed. We had always been concerned the snobby RYA regarded
power boating as 2nd class . Hence reluctance to change title to RYA
Power and Yachting Association. Perhaps confirmed a few years ago when
they appointed As Chief Dinghy and Power Boat Coach , as they are
2 opposite disciplines and he seem to come from a background of working with young people with severely disadvantaged backgrounds , supporting
outdoor holiday organisations . His resume showed no information about
power boating qualifications. He also told us that if we were out on
RYA training we must not get involved in any Rescue . " Let them drown
we are RYA " I was also not impressed with his alteration of the RESCUE
Coxswain Level 3 , and Fleet Rescue Coxswain . To combined Safety
Boat Coxswain , as the latter was more to do with sailing.
That you could pass the course on a small easy to drive RIB , and obtain
a International Certificate of Competence which allowed you to drive
much larger and more powerful motor cruisers. When I took my level 2
in 1973 . It was on a Twin Diesel Grand Banks. 40 hrs accompanied and
15 hours in command , and endorsed " all weather conditions "
The IYT are more flexible , and have a small power and ribmaster , and
longer and more professional course for larger cruisers. That if you go to
the IYT WWW you will find a number of Countries no longer accept
RYA Qualifications
Commodore Philip Pearce-Smith
www.venturers search and rescue
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Old 01 December 2007, 10:20   #64
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" Let them drown we are RYA "

mi fealins igsakly

oww mucch didd yew paiy forr yorr MEB
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Old 01 December 2007, 13:51   #65
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I would be intrigued to hear the RYA version of this story. I can't imagine they have ever insisted the a school should not respond to a mayday call (which is what you imply). I also cannot believe that they don't allow RYA schools to offer additional training in addition to the RYA programme.

Might I ask if a twin diesel grand banks handles in the same way as a small outboard (or jet in your case) powered rib? I would have thought the priority for you was to ensure your crews could handle your boats safely and responsibly - what someone does with a qualification outside your organisation is a completely differnet issue.
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Old 01 December 2007, 14:52   #66
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Reply to Simon Cowes Rescue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Hawkins View Post
I have reservations on Matts post. The argument for this is because we were tasked to a casualty last year reported by Venturers. The position was just off the entrance to beaulie. When we arrived, venturers were no where to be seen, tried comms with them on Channel 16, but no reply. We headed West along Gull Island and found them with the casualty. I
structed by coastguard to take over.
In reply to Simon Hawkins
knock at the Venturers . The causality initially gave a incorrect position ,
and was found by a search by the Venturers. I assume Cowes Rescue
if working with the Coast were on Channel zero which we do not have.
We were working with the Coastguard on Channel 67 , and would not
have heard your channel 16 call to us. It was a simple tow which our
9.5 meter Ocean Dynamic could have coped with . Rather a waste of
fuel and effort sending you all the way from Cowes ; but as our Coxswain
said " if the dog want,s the bone let them have it.
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Old 01 December 2007, 15:11   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiffy View Post
We do not feel the RYA Level 2 to be taken in a 2 day set course was sufficient for all the information and skills to be absorbed
especially when dealing with teenagers with no previous sea going experience.We had a pre-training of 1 year for level 1 and 2 years for level 2 , where we ran right through the RYA level 2 time and time again and in different weather conditions.
The RNLI and many other well respected organisations use the Level 2 with additional training to suit their individual needs- what extra is in the IYT course that makes it better for you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiffy View Post
With a star chart when we felt the cadet had mastered
that part.
Are you honestly teaching a Solent based RIB crew astro nav so that they can patrol the Western Solent????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiffy View Post
the snobby RYA regarded
power boating as 2nd class . Hence reluctance to change title to RYA
Power and Yachting Association.
Ever heard of a motor yacht?

Should we all take an organisations name so literally??? - search and rescue man
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiffy View Post
Perhaps confirmed a few years ago when
they appointed As Chief Dinghy and Power Boat Coach
Has been 8 yrs and they have since twice appointed a powerboat national coach.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiffy View Post
" Let them drown we are RYA "
Are you exagerating, quoting out of context or lying? I suspect that the statment was more along the lines of "you have to seperate your RYA trainig time from patrol time".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiffy View Post
I was also not impressed with his alteration of the RESCUE
Coxswain Level 3 , and Fleet Rescue Coxswain . To combined Safety
Boat Coxswain , as the latter was more to do with sailing.
The courses covers towing and rescuing powerboats, windsurfers, dinghies, keelboats and kayak/canoes. The RYA leave other scenarios to those who are expert in those fields.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiffy View Post
That you could pass the course on a small easy to drive RIB , and obtain
a International Certificate of Competence which allowed you to drive
much larger and more powerful motor cruisers. .
You are very out of date on this issue and what has ICC got to do with what your team do anyway?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiffy View Post
When I took my level 2
in 1973 . It was on a Twin Diesel Grand Banks. 40 hrs accompanied and
15 hours in command , and endorsed " all weather conditions " .
Clearly we should all bow down to your godliness here as I fail to see the relevance of this boat to what is being discussed here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiffy View Post
The IYT are more flexible , .
Yes I agree with you. Pay your fee and they will let you do what you want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiffy View Post
and have a small power and ribmaster , and
longer and more professional course for larger cruisers. .
Same as RYA who they copied in the first place

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiffy View Post
That if you go to
the IYT WWW you will find a number of Countries no longer accept
RYA Qualifications
and which country are you based in that does not recognise RYA certs?


Young Matt held himself very well on this forum and is a credit to your organisation, you however have got your facts in some cases out of date and in some cases plain wrong.
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Old 01 December 2007, 15:37   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Hawkins View Post
Matt

Thankyou for that. This inceident certainly did not happen in the last 3 years since I have been on the boat. I find it hard to believe we would of put the boat up leap beach, breaking both legs. Being a rescue service you will appreciate that life will always be put before vessel. I cannot speak for this event, but if hypothermia had set in then the casualties would of been taken back to Cowes, then the vessel recovered later, or by requesting Solent Coastguard to task Calshot Lifeboat. Legs over the side of boat. You have seen our boat and cannot really understand why this would be.

In respect of us not releasing the tow to you, this would be because we would of been under direct instructions to Coastguard, and they would have to authorise us to release a tow.

I note what you say about one crew member entering the water to swim the baot out. This is absurd, have you ever tried doing this with a 9m boat weighing 3 tonnes.

I think that perhaps before you start casting accusations that you have the full story.
I was coxswain on the Venturers Rescue Rib at the time ,and having just
returned from the Med , had not seen your post. I can confirm Matt
version which was 3rd hand is only part accurate. The behavior of your
crew was not in the best interests of the causality . You reported one
was suffering from " after drowning and the other from Hypothermia.
That towing both the dinghy and the 2 persons from South Bramble to
Lepe Beach , with 2 Ambulances waiting . Would have taken a considerable
time , thus I was astounded when you refused my offer to take either
the causalities or the dinghy. Although reported as suffering from exposure
no proper first aid was being carried out , and one was sitting on your
tubes with his feet in the dinghy ,and being splashed by the sea , as
your side tow was on the windward side. I offered our thermal exposure
suite , and you said you had a para medic on board. That it was no longer
good practice to wrap a exposure case up.

To come back to your claim you did not pass over the dinghy , because
we were not working with the Coastguard. It was our initial report to
the Coastguard from the father of the boy , that they authorized us to
start a search. That it was only after I contacted the Coastguard of
my concerns over the time it would take for you to reach Lepe Beach
that you had a change of mind. You initially made a un seamanlike suggestion
we should attach our side tow while you still had your attached. This
I declined.

When I got back to Lepe Beach , I found one of your crew in the
water trying to tow your Rib to deeper water . This could not have been
so long ago as it was the twin outboard , prior to your present Rib ,and
not a Avon as Matt thought. Your man in the water initially refused
my offer to tow it to deeper water , even though he was making no
progress against the tide. Although he eventually accept. I Offered to
to you back to Cowes ; which you refused , and called out Calshot
Lifeboat. So if you still state this never happened , check their records.
We have this in our log , and can supply date , time and signals.You must
also have bills for the repairs to the steering or bottom engines , due to
damage done when approaching Lepe Beach.

Your other statement that you would have taken a exposure case to
Cowes , does not stand up to the requests for Ambulance to Lepe , and
your arrival there.

I am sorry to put the true fact in writing and in the public domain , but
you did start it by knocking the Venturers , and open it up further by
asking for any incidents where you had gone wrong. So I will not mention
the time you drove across Gurnard Ledge , although repairs to your bottom
end must have been expensive. The time you used excessive initial
power on a wooden sail boat , and pulled the front sampson post out of
the deck, cannot quite remember if we took this one over.

The Venturers may have a number of teenagers ; but most have Level 2 ,
4 over 16 have Rescue Boat Coxswain Certificate. 3 including one 16 year
old are IYT Power/Ribmaster Instructors . We have citations from the
RNLI , RYA , Royal Humane Society Awards , We have been operational
since 1961 . We do suffer from jealousy , and often see posting such
as you rammed my boat while I was at anchor , but when asked for
date time ,repair bills or more information there is no reply , and when
investigated by our local MP Dr. Julian Lewis they disolved into smoke and
mirrors. Any doubts read some of the hundreds of letters on our URL ,
or published in Independent Life Boats.
So all you out there anxious to have a go at these teenagers who
instead of mugging old ladies , stealing cars , doing drugs or vandalising
property. Have shown given the training , opportunity and trust they
can provide a valuable " Additional Facility in the Solent " Which the
Coast Guard must trust or they would not accept our offers of assistance
Commodore Philip Pearce-Smith MBE VSC
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Old 01 December 2007, 16:41   #69
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tiffy - I suggest you might want to take some advice from Doug @ Stormforce on good management of potentially adverse publicity, or indeed even from Matt. Your post above comes across as a defensive rant.

how many of your teenagers have criminal records? there is this repeated claim that you are preventing young people from participating in crime - but I suspect that many of the people involved may not actually be the sort of teenager which uses mindless vandalism and theft to fill their spare time.
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Old 01 December 2007, 16:46   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiffy
With a star chart when we felt the cadet had mastered
that part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce View Post
Are you honestly teaching a Solent based RIB crew astro nav so that they can patrol the Western Solent????
Doug - i think it is some sort of SuperNanny sticker chart (or perhaps its like McDonalds staff with a badge).
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