Sea survival, family sized

[gtb]

I'm looking for your general thoughts and suggestions for getting the family familiar with the equipment I hope we'll never need as we explore the world of ribbing in and around the Solent.

We come as a team of six, from age ten upwards. I'd like to throw everyone in a pool (ideally, a wave pool) with their clothes & lifejacket on, see the liferaft in action, understand what to do with a flare, and understand the implications and correct behavior when dunked in the water or experiencing an unplanned event at sea (e.g. dad falling in), etc. We've talked about what to do already, and done briefings each trip, but I'm looking for driving it home with a practical session.

I see it as a fun family day out, and a chance to get the kids some useful experience in a safe environment. We don't need lots of theory or certificates. I'm sure there is a better way than signing everyone up for the RYA sea survival course individually (6 x £100)!

Anybody done sea survival as a whole family? Where did you do it cost effectively? Any other options than going the 'get certified' route?

[treerat]

I did mine through the local adult education, cost me a lot less than £100. If you speak to the local co-ordinator I'm sure they would come up with some thing.

[C2 RIBS]

Originally Posted by gtb

I'm looking for your general thoughts and suggestions for getting the family familiar with the equipment I hope we'll never need as we explore the world of ribbing in and around the Solent.

We come as a team of six, from age ten upwards. I'd like to throw everyone in a pool (ideally, a wave pool) with their clothes & lifejacket on, see the liferaft in action, understand what to do with a flare, and understand the implications and correct behavior when dunked in the water or experiencing an unplanned event at sea (e.g. dad falling in), etc. We've talked about what to do already, and done briefings each trip, but I'm looking for driving it home with a practical session.

I see it as a fun family day out, and a chance to get the kids some useful experience in a safe environment. We don't need lots of theory or certificates. I'm sure there is a better way than signing everyone up for the RYA sea survival course individually (6 x £100)!

Anybody done sea survival as a whole family? Where did you do it cost effectively? Any other options than going the 'get certified' route?

Hi Tim, very valid point you raise, does everyone need an RYA ticket when all they need is the information in a good learning environment. I hope a local training school/person could offer a package. I will e mail a friend who trains, but not sure he can in his present role offer off the RYA plan!

[John Kennett]

Sounds like a good idea. I might be interested in something like that with the kids too.

[gtb]

Originally Posted by C2 RIBS

Hi Tim, very valid point you raise, does everyone need an RYA ticket when all they need is the information in a good learning environment. I hope a local training school/person could offer a package. I will e mail a friend who trains, but not sure he can in his present role offer off the RYA plan!

Thanks Ian, I'm not asking for anyone to do anything 'unconventional', just looking for ideas and thoughts... If it turns out that the RYA course is the only feasible way to go, then I just need to figure something out.

[C2 RIBS]

Originally Posted by gtb

Thanks Ian, I'm not asking for anyone to do anything 'unconventional', just looking for ideas and thoughts... If it turns out that the RYA course is the only feasible way to go, then I just need to figure something out.

Yep, knowing your position and appears also JK there is clearly a need for something that does not need an RYA ticket. It perhaps needs an independant trainer who can book a half day to cover sea survival inputs and swimming pool stuff but without the need for RYA card. I am sure there will be a reason not to offer this! I have emailed a friend and hopefully someone here will know also

[gtb]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

Sounds like a good idea. I might be interested in something like that with the kids too.

No idea how the cost is broken down across trainer, pool hire, RYA fee, advertising, etc - but I'd hope that if we roll up with a full course of people ready to go on the same date we could talk price.

If I'm reading Mr Griffin's website correctly it would seem he's offering "buy one, get one half price" on Sea Survival - which is an interesting data point.

[Ribochet]

Originally Posted by gtb

Anybody done sea survival as a whole family? Where did you do it cost effectively? Any other options than going the 'get certified' route?

Yes myself, the missus and my two girls have all done the RYA Sea survival course - money very well spent and of all the RYA courses this is the one that I would recommend the most.

I know there is a lot of RYA bashing on this forum and I have done my fair share but in my case to RYA Hamble directly - however without doubt the quality of RYA courses when executed by the right Instructor is literally "world class".

As for the RYA Sea survival course in particular the pool session is the " pièce de résistance" as you can read about it, you talk about it, you can watch the video but nothing but nothing prepares you for the unforgetable experience of righting and "clambering" into a real liferaft with maybe someone hosing you down with cold water - absolutely brilliant.

I will never forget my Instructors tag line - "to be a survivor - first you have to survive"

[PeterM]

All good points..me and the ex did the course with stormforce and while it was useful to me in the longer term we both viewed it as just good fun at the same time.

The pool session is the icing on the cake...and makes you far more confident in the water.

[Tim M]

Talk to the RNLI - you should be able to organise a bespoke training session. Me and two friends did this earlier this year; we booked some RIB capsize training at Poole. Was great fun, but not cheap.

Whilst very useful, the RYA sea servivial probably isnt that relevant to pottering around the Solent in a RIB.

Edit: also worth contacting Warsah maritime accadamy - they also do stuff like this I believe.

[Doug Stormforce]

Originally Posted by gtb

I'm looking for your general thoughts and suggestions for getting the family familiar with the equipment I hope we'll never need as we explore the world of ribbing in and around the Solent.

We come as a team of six, from age ten upwards. I'd like to throw everyone in a pool (ideally, a wave pool) with their clothes & lifejacket on, see the liferaft in action, understand what to do with a flare, and understand the implications and correct behavior when dunked in the water or experiencing an unplanned event at sea (e.g. dad falling in), etc. We've talked about what to do already, and done briefings each trip, but I'm looking for driving it home with a practical session.

I see it as a fun family day out, and a chance to get the kids some useful experience in a safe environment. We don't need lots of theory or certificates. I'm sure there is a better way than signing everyone up for the RYA sea survival course individually (6 x £100)!

Anybody done sea survival as a whole family? Where did you do it cost effectively? Any other options than going the 'get certified' route?

Hi

We run Sea Survival courses pretty regularly and would always discount a group of 6 (in fact all of our courses offer a discount as soon as you bring a 2nd person). As already mentioned by several others the pool session and the flare session are by far the most valuable parts of the RYA course

Putting something a bit more bespoke together is completely possible, although I should start by saying that a bespoke course for 6 of you that has the same costs (instructor, life guard, pool hire, raft re pack, cylinder re fill, admin, use of kit) is unlikely to come in cheaper than a course where we would have up to 16 students spaces

The content of the standard RYA course includes most of what you would like to cover

• Practical pool session on what to do if you land in cold water
• Use of a life jacket in the pool
• Practical pool session on use of a life raft
• Practical use of flares

However contrary to Tim Ms advice the RYA Sea Survival course also includes many other things that are very relevant to a Ribber, in the Solent.

• Cold water Shock
• Alternative means of distress calling
• Talking to SAR
• Being rescued (life boat or helicopter)
• Contents of a life raft
• Types of life jackets
• Choosing which raft is appropriate for you
• Actions before, during and after abandonment of your boat
• and so on

In summary we (or in fact most sea survival centres/instructors) would be quite able to run a bespoke course for you, however I would question why you would not just do the RYA course, particularly if you want to keep the cost down but want all of the expensive parts of the RYA course.

As far as the wave pool goes, most centres do not use one. The RNLI (as mentioned above) do however have a good wave pool in Poole, so if thats what you are specifically after they may be a good option (although not at the budget of beating 6 times £100). Customers often ask us why we don't use a wave pool. It partly comes down to availability of a pool and cost but in actual fact we see enough people who cant climb into a raft when we throw a couple of buckets of water at them or spray a hose at them, to introduce a wave machine is unnecessary. If you are really after something bespoke I would suggest that life raft training in the sea is by far the most valuable option and that cold flat sea water will push you more than a heated wave pool. Raft training in the sea is entirely possible (although bespoke), and we have over the years run various bespoke sessions "on the oggin." As with all things it comes with a price tag as costs go up.

[treerat]

£120 an hour to hire our local wave pool - was fun in the liferaft (used it on our course )but an expensive option for bespoke courses.

[gtb]

Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce

In summary we (or in fact most sea survival centres/instructors) would be quite able to run a bespoke course for you, however I would question why you would not just do the RYA course, particularly if you want to keep the cost down but want all of the expensive parts of the RYA course.

Doug, thanks for the very comprehensive response.

Just to be clear, I'm not looking for a bespoke course I'm just investigating the alternatives out there for similar training, and if the concensus is that the RYA course is the one to go for, despite us not requiring the certification, then I'm happy with that advice!

I'm also happy to join in a larger group. We all learn from each other so having a decent number of people all struggling with the same thing is a bonus.

A few people above have mentioned colleges etc for similar training. I've not found anything on-line, so I'll likley persue the RYA angle and see where I can get a deal

[treerat]

Would be worth speakig to Steve (or who ever is answering the phone) at Coastal Sea School - he may well be able to build you what you are after, especially if you can tie up with John

Booking line: + 44 121 288 0200
Mobile: + 44 701 071 3399
Fax: + 44 844 586 3399 (Local call: 0844 586 3399)
Email: weymouth@coastalsafety.com

[Tim M]

Not sure there are too many people that need to "cut stream close maintain" in the Solent!

Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce

Hi

We run Sea Survival courses pretty regularly and would always discount a group of 6 (in fact all of our courses offer a discount as soon as you bring a 2nd person). As already mentioned by several others the pool session and the flare session are by far the most valuable parts of the RYA course

Putting something a bit more bespoke together is completely possible, although I should start by saying that a bespoke course for 6 of you that has the same costs (instructor, life guard, pool hire, raft re pack, cylinder re fill, admin, use of kit) is unlikely to come in cheaper than a course where we would have up to 16 students spaces

The content of the standard RYA course includes most of what you would like to cover

• Practical pool session on what to do if you land in cold water
• Use of a life jacket in the pool
• Practical pool session on use of a life raft
• Practical use of flares

However contrary to Tim Ms advice the RYA Sea Survival course also includes many other things that are very relevant to a Ribber, in the Solent.

• Cold water Shock
• Alternative means of distress calling
• Talking to SAR
• Being rescued (life boat or helicopter)
• Contents of a life raft
• Types of life jackets
• Choosing which raft is appropriate for you
• Actions before, during and after abandonment of your boat
• and so on

In summary we (or in fact most sea survival centres/instructors) would be quite able to run a bespoke course for you, however I would question why you would not just do the RYA course, particularly if you want to keep the cost down but want all of the expensive parts of the RYA course.

As far as the wave pool goes, most centres do not use one. The RNLI (as mentioned above) do however have a good wave pool in Poole, so if thats what you are specifically after they may be a good option (although not at the budget of beating 6 times £100). Customers often ask us why we don't use a wave pool. It partly comes down to availability of a pool and cost but in actual fact we see enough people who cant climb into a raft when we throw a couple of buckets of water at them or spray a hose at them, to introduce a wave machine is unnecessary. If you are really after something bespoke I would suggest that life raft training in the sea is by far the most valuable option and that cold flat sea water will push you more than a heated wave pool. Raft training in the sea is entirely possible (although bespoke), and we have over the years run various bespoke sessions "on the oggin." As with all things it comes with a price tag as costs go up.

[Doug Stormforce]

Originally Posted by Tim M

Not sure there are too many people that need to "cut stream close maintain" in the Solent!

Tim. I am impressed you remember the phrase "Cut, Stream, Close, Maintain" from your course.

For the benefit of those who are not familiar with the phrase that Tim is suggesting is not "needed"

As you and your crew/family climb into the raft it will be tied to the sinking/burning vessel

CUT means that once you are all on board the raft you cut the painter that it tying you to the burning/sinking vessel. It does not matter whether you are in a small River, a bigger expanse of water such as the Solent or mid Ocean you DO NOT want to be attached to something that is on fire or sinking if you don't need to be

STREAM means stream the drogue. A life raft's design assumes that you have streamed the drogue, it is one of the design features that reduces the chances of the life raft capsizing. Again if you abandoned to your raft in confused seas you would not want it to capsize regardless of wether in the Solent or else where

CLOSE, means close the door. The reason for this are quite obvious but in case you have not realised, it help insulate the inside of the raft but more importantly it keeps the waves/spray out. As most Ribnetters will be aware the human body cools down when wet far far quicker than when dry

MAINTAIN, is a general term for maintenance of both human life and the liferaft, it refers to all sorts of secondary actions, such as calling for help, deploying the Radar reflector, checking none of the crew are hurt/administering First Aid, bailing out any water that is in the raft and so on. Again these are actions that are equally appropriate for someone in the Solent as else where

The sea has the potential to hurt us regardless of geographical location and Survival techniques are just as relevant in the Solent as anywhere else. In fact with sea temperatures in the Solent at less than 10 C for half the year and the huge number of hazards and potential problems in the Solent (fog, grounding, shallow areas, commercial shipping, busy waters, collision, bouyage, strong tides and obstructions) this is not an area you should dismiss when it comes to keeping safe. I can't quote this as a fact but I suspect the Solent year on year claims more lives then any single piece of open ocean of similar size. Just because we are afforded some protection from the Isle of Wight (in many wind directions) does not mean that we should not have regard for the same survival issues as anyone else!


In my opinion the basic actions of cutting the painter, streaming the drogue, closing the door and maintaining your crew and their environment will increase your chances of survival both in the Solent and else where.

[gtb]

Just a follow-up on this thread to say thanks to "Doug Stormforce" and the team for a highly valuable day doing the RYA sea survival course last weekend.

A couple of forum members generously offered discounts on taking the whole family on the sea survival course, and with two parents and four kids to consider that was much appreciated Our family includes kids aged 10 to 16, so quite the range to accommodate.

Although the class was a real mix of backgrounds and objectives, including experienced saliors heading round the world, individuals getting their ticket towards a commercial license, and us newbies just learning for ribbing around in the Solent, our tutor for the day (Candi) did a great job of including everyone in the discussion and spanning the wide range of requirements.

There was a lot to get through in one day, and of course to satisfy the ticket requirements there was a set agenda to cover too. Most of it was relevant to recreational sailors not venturing too far from land, though there were some aspects that could have been omitted for us and bits I would have liked to include - again, not a criticism of the trainers at all as they had to cover the syllabus and deal with these different demands.

As a family setting off into the Solent we learnt about the effects of cold water, the types and use of lifejackets, how to use a flare, and what happens when there is a coastguard hovering overhead, etc. All good practical stuff. We also learnt something about long term survival which I expect we'd never need so close to help.

I would have liked to have had a view of steps to take following a number of 'what-if' emergency situations (MOB, grounding, fire, collision, etc). It would also be useful to have practical session on activating (dummy) help devices like VHF/DSC and EPIRBs, and giving the family members a chance to make a (simulated) mayday call etc. I am picking these up from doing different courses and reading, but I think there is a case for a rolling them up into a recreational sea safety (vs. 'survival') course too.

Let me emphasize once again, the tuition from Stormforce was excellent, the trainer was very aware of our particular needs and did all she could to ensure we got everything from the day that she could. We all came home suitably knackered and brain-fried from what we were taught, and having the knowledge and experience of sea survival will definitely help.

[C2 RIBS]

Nice one Tim , glad it worked out for you. You will be out soon then?

[Poly]

Cold water Shock
Alternative means of distress calling
Talking to SAR
Being rescued (life boat or helicopter)
Contents of a life raft
Types of life jackets
Choosing which raft is appropriate for you
Actions before, during and after abandonment of your boat
and so on

Doug - I missed this first time round. I can see exactly where the OP is coming from and would hope you would be able to recognise that the learning needs of a family in the solent might be different from someone planning a cross ocean voyage. Thats not to suggest that the RYA course is not good, and might well be appropriate for some ribbers.

Realistically though my children, and even my wife, are not going to get actively involved in selecting a life jacket or life raft etc. They wear what I suggest which makes it all the more important for me, but less for them. Like many ribbers we don't carry a liferaft, so anything they gain from that bit would be of limited value. Likewise we don't have an Epirb so knowing how to use on is interesting but pointless for the kids. Far more useful to know how to use the model of VHF I have and the type of flares I carry. BUT practical exercises on getting a heavy dad back in the boat, or use a DSC radio without spending a whole day (a whole day FFS its really not that difficult), or even restart the engine if I've gone over with the kill cord. A lot of it might be touched on in PB2 course, but my crew don't want to learn to 'drive a rib' they simply need to know what to do if I am no longer there to do it for them. These are all things I've taught my 'crew' but a short 2 hr or afternoon course run by someone who isn't dad would actually be quite interesting/useful. Not sure how economically viable it would be for a training centre.

[gtb]

Originally Posted by C2 RIBS

Nice one Tim , glad it worked out for you. You will be out soon then?

Yeah, we went to Portsmouth on the 9th Feb Solent cruise - but need to wait for the crew to forget how cold they were before tempting them out onto the water again