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Old 04 August 2005, 14:57   #31
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I agree Rogue Wave

Kieron is a good chap with years of experience. He has skippered for us many times with a professional attitude and much experience.
He has run a professional company and has done many boat tests for the commercial market. It was a very unfortunate experience and I feel for him.
That buoy has not been serviced for many years and is very close to the shipping channel. I feel he has been made a guinea pig for others ahead.
I very much feel for the friends who were travelling in the rib and very much for the ones who were hurt, but I do feel the outcome was very harsh.
My opinion only. You do have friends Kieron.
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Old 04 August 2005, 15:25   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilge Rat
JK was quoting in general and cast no aspertions over anyones ability to operate any form of water craft, mearly generalising on this occassion.
Really?

Perhaps you ought to re-read your original post!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilge Rat
this dick then with the proper training might not have hit the bouy in the first place !
Compulsory training and licensing for leisure boaters would have done nothing to prevent this incident. It has no relevance.

John
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Old 04 August 2005, 15:34   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islander
Kieron is a good chap with years of experience. He has skippered for us many times with a professional attitude and much experience.
He has run a professional company and has done many boat tests for the commercial market. It was a very unfortunate experience and I feel for him.
That buoy has not been serviced for many years and is very close to the shipping channel. I feel he has been made a guinea pig for others ahead.
I very much feel for the friends who were travelling in the rib and very much for the ones who were hurt, but I do feel the outcome was very harsh.
My opinion only. You do have friends Kieron.
Totally agree Kieron has done work for us on a couple of occasions, and I can only say he's very experienced and professional. And I second your sentiments "You do have friends Kieron."

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Old 04 August 2005, 17:48   #34
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Although I don't know the skipper involved and the full circumstances involved. It would seem this poor guy has probably got more of a jail sentence than:-

1) A Paedophile.

2) An illegal immigrant with no insurance killing someone with a car.

3) Somebody slashing someone with a knife.

4) A parent going on holiday and leaving there kids behind to fend for themselves.

The list seems endless and by the end of this year will probably included a failed suicide bomber who Cherie Blair has defended.

I rest my case.....
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Old 05 August 2005, 06:27   #35
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If I order a skip to romove rubbish and it has to be placed in the road and not on my drive the skip hire company have to place lights on it to warn drivers of its presence to do this they have to apply to the local council for a permit which I have to pay for in addition to the skip a lot of trouble I thing you Would agree but if it stops a car driver runing in to it and killing them selves its a small price to pay but some one can place a 20 ton buoy in a very busy shipping channel with no lights simply because they have registerd it seems to me the wrong person is in jail or is it the little person getting kicked in the teeth by the big corporations ????
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Old 05 August 2005, 07:46   #36
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it seems that way, but its on the chart and it has not moved so there is a reference, the skip has no reference....but i do agree that some bouys seem to be placed without lights when they could really do with one. Cowes as i remember has a big ship bouy, which i came very close to hitting in a yacht one night
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Old 05 August 2005, 07:51   #37
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I do not agree. There are ruks if the road which if followed would have prevented this. the collison damage would have been a lot less at a safe speed!

Presumably you live in a 30 MPH limit how would you feel if somebody died hitting your skip at 60 mph , you wouldd probably say it wa there own fault for speeding. I certainly would and I am a kind and generous guy (alledgedly!)

Are you actually saying it is ok to crash into bouys just cos they are unlit!

If any good comes out of this then maybe somebody may thing about making deformable steelwork or even seat rests that fold forward under impact

AS I said previously Kierons a mate but I think he was in the wrong
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Old 05 August 2005, 09:51   #38
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Rogue

Nope i am not saying that . In an earlier post i made some comments

"Running into a buoy at night, things spring to mind like, but not limited to

1) Passage plan, e.g to miss such things and checking where you are
2) Safe speed
3) If you are not sure then stop and find out where you are


a bit of basic care, at 30 knots in the dark is quite fast and needs skill, well i think it does anyway"

My other comment was that some bouys whilst on the chart and unlit - possibly suffer from a common sense rule, e.g why put a bouy unlit close to the main channel - this is just an example.

I have instructed many people on Ribs and larger vessels and to be honest following a few simple IPRCS rules has always prevented issues for me at night
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Old 05 August 2005, 10:11   #39
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I think the really sad part of all this is for the rest of his life, Kieron is going to have to live with the fact that he seriously hurt himself, his girlfriend and 3 other close friends in an accident that could have been avoided.

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Old 05 August 2005, 10:58   #40
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This is all grim stuff I'll be starting to learn ribbing at night soon and will always remember this, same also for the accident posted a few days ago in Scotland.

I feel heartely sorry for the skipper who made the error, there are some parallels with cars etc but it isn't directly translatable. Illumination has been discussed but its not like a road from which deviation is to be avoided. In the same vein one would struggle to illuminate large trees etc near the road, sadly as we witness each day, large imovable objects do kill all to readily.

I hope his stay in prison will not be a horrible ordeal.
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