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Old 27 September 2005, 06:14   #11
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Originally Posted by Richard B
Interesting... tell us more. Was it your port or starbord side?
Before you ask I was stationary but he hit me port side to. He came along side at 90' and clobbered me.

He did look a bit of an old boy so perhaps his sight was failing him

Not impressed.

Chris
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Old 27 September 2005, 06:16   #12
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PS New Atlantic 85 - How much money do the RNLI have????
Rather a lot I think. In 2000 they had 200m in "free reserves". However, to put this figure in perspective, this represented just under 3 years running costs. I understand that the figure is now down to about 1.5 years running costs, presumably the capital expenditure at Poole accounting for a large part of the drop.

There is a school of thought that suggests they were "encouraged" to reduce their reserves by the charity commission, in order to deflect critisism of hoarding cash.

Personally I don't begrudge them a penny. The better the kit, and the better trained the operatives - the safer it is for all on the water.

Ian
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Old 27 September 2005, 06:17   #13
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Originally Posted by RussellH
I seem to recall that the display stated that the cost of the new Atlantic 85 was 115K (it might have been 125k).

Is that unreasonable? Standard twin 115HP engines would cost 15-16K, to make them restart after inversion? Double it. The electronics? Say 20-30K, 20K for the hull. It soon adds up to a tidy sum, and I for one don't begrudge it to them.

Russell
Why do the RNLI not buy off the shelf boats? There are some seriously good boats available for that price?? I suspect its because the surplus cash is available for a bespoke boat and thats the only reason.

Whats wrong with an Arctic, Delta or other commercial rib?

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Old 27 September 2005, 07:04   #14
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Why do the RNLI not buy off the shelf boats?
If I turn my Humber over, I doubt the engine would start again (ever). I don't need an "A" frame capable of carrying the radar, antennae, etc. that the RNLI carry or the self-righting kit. Or a console etc. etc.

If you've bought a new boat recently the "bog standard" boat price inflates very quickly as the extras are fitted. I also suspect that the commercial operators do not take their boats to the extremes that the RNLI do.

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I suspect its because the surplus cash is available for a bespoke boat and thats the only reason.
That's a bit churlish isn't it? I give them my money every year and hope that I'm never in the position to test their kit for real.

R.
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Old 27 September 2005, 07:41   #15
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'Their new training college is a good example - how did they manage up until now without it??? Also why build it in an area where land is so expensive??? Surely they could have built it somewhere else for a lot less money - Sunseeker have far less impressive premises!!!'

The new headquarters /training college is about people at the top empire building , it goes on in any organisation ,and may well be an extravagance.However that should not be confused with providing the people on the front line with the best and safest,for them and us,equipment available.If they think that the Atlantic 85 is it then that is fine by me.
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Old 27 September 2005, 07:47   #16
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I'm sorry but its fairly obvious to me that other off the shelf boats do perform just as well as the Atlantic.


Look here: http://www.deltapower.co.uk/news-northumbrianpolice.htm

and here: http://www.deltapower.co.uk/news-projectjigsaw.htm

and here: http://www.deltapower.co.uk/news-ascensionlandgovt.htm

Chris
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Old 27 September 2005, 13:56   #17
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Atlantic 85

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robox
'Their new training college is a good example - how did they manage up until now without it??? Also why build it in an area where land is so expensive???

The new headquarters /training college is about people at the top empire building
We have never had to do as much formal training before; H&S, more complex kit, etc. And funnily enough, it is estimated that the Training College will SAVE the RNLI upwards of 1m in VAT annually (VAT on accomodation cannot be reclaimed). I've yet to meet another crewmember complaining


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Originally Posted by CJL
other off the shelf boats do perform just as well as the Atlantic
They probably do, and in other respects, they probably don't. Lifeboats must be capable of very varied workloads, and 1 type of commercially available boat would not tick all the boxes - but bits of many of them might! There are many considerations, such as repairability at station, ease of maintenance, launching method, sea conditions (from dumping surf to sheltered harbours), fuelling restrictions at stations, the list goes on.

I do understand the concern some show at the developments, however if the R&D stopped we'd still be sending 8kt Watsons offshore...And if you look at some of the independents (e.g. Portishead) their commercial boats have strangely familiar features too.....so the RNLI must be doing something right!

The link to deltas with inversion proofed engines...I wonder who first came up with that idea? The R&D eventually trickles into mainstream usage so everyone might benefit in the future, whether you end up being rescued or not.
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Old 27 September 2005, 14:14   #18
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'Their new training college is a good example - how did they manage up until now without it??? Also why build it in an area where land is so expensive??? Surely they could have built it somewhere else for a lot less money - Sunseeker have far less impressive premises!!!'
Would that be the same training college that's 400 yards from Sunseeker in Poole or am I confused?
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Old 27 September 2005, 14:24   #19
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Originally Posted by ribrunt
VAT on accomodation cannot be reclaimed
Don't misunderstand me, I'm not complaining about the RNLI facilities, but reclaim of VAT on accommodation is generally permissible - I certainly reclaim VAT on hotel bills. Or do different rules apply to charities?
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Old 27 September 2005, 14:54   #20
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I'm sorry but its fairly obvious to me that other off the shelf boats do perform just as well as the Atlantic.
I spoke to the guys on the atlantic 85 about this on Thursday (without having read this forum incidently!), and they actually invited top rib builders such as avon, humber and the like to give them some boats to try out. They took them out, abused them for a couple of days, and apparently broke every one. They subjected the new 85 hull to the same tests, and then some more, and it remained in one piece and functional.

The atlantic 85 is a hugely expensive, seriously over engineered boat, designed to do a very specific job. The boats the RNLI tried from mainstream manufacturers were not up to the same standard. The on they build, is. Plus, by building it in house, they get to specify every single little thing, to ensure that absolutely everything is dependable when they go off to rescue people. This is why their in house designed boats tend to be very heavy, very strong, and very robust.

It's a funny thing, that in a gale, the RNLI will come out for you whether you continually question and belittle them, or offer them full support. Believe me, whether they are becoming top heavy, building an empire, whatever, they are still running a hugely successful and genuinely useful FREE service with boats they know they, and therefore by definition YOU, cen depend upon to do the job and not create a bigger hazard in an emergency.
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