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Old 06 July 2012, 08:17   #71
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Originally Posted by Cookee View Post
..... it's very unnerving to see fishing boats pass by lifting and setting crab pots in thick fog!
Get radar on yer boat Cookee.... However, your point that regulation doesn't necessarily lead to improved safety, is taken.
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Old 06 July 2012, 08:29   #72
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Not half as unnerving as it would be to be hauling lines in the nice quiet fog and then the Sterling bursts onto the scene...

````........ L_____/
............. We were bursting onto the scene at all of about 5 mph! That is our minimum speed when both engines are in gear ..........

With respect to our sponsors products I don't think fitting a radar would be a clever move - it might suffer a bit with the speed and violent changes of direction!
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When a boat looks that good who needs tubes!!!
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Old 06 July 2012, 08:51   #73
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.... With respect to our sponsors products I don't think fitting a radar would be a clever move - it might suffer a bit with the speed and violent changes of direction!
Hehe, is that code for, "Our sponsors don't think the boat will look so cool with a bucket on the roof." ?

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Old 06 July 2012, 09:11   #74
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Hehe, is that code for, "Our sponsors don't think the boat will look so cool with a bucket on the roof." ?

Not at all although I'm sure Raymarine could find me something to stick up there if I wanted to - it would certainly be good PR if it survived!
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When a boat looks that good who needs tubes!!!
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Old 06 July 2012, 13:19   #75
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OK, how about this one, all leisure users need to be sea checked and they can cough up a small sum to the RNLI for this. RNLI do it already and it covers all the basics nicely.

Allow HMs or whoever to do spot checks, no sea check "cert" then you get a fine.

The amount of edifice creation and legislation is small, RNLI get a bit more money and a basic form of regulation will have been introduced, the Darwin enthusiats may also have had their needs met!
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Old 06 July 2012, 14:48   #76
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OK, how about this one, all leisure users need to be sea checked and they can cough up a small sum to the RNLI for this. RNLI do it already and it covers all the basics nicely.
Simon, nice of you to volunteer the RNLI to carry out your idea, have you asked them if they want to deliver a mandatory inspection program on behalf of the government.
[QUOTE=Simon B;473679
Allow HMs or whoever to do spot checks, no sea check "cert" then you get a fine.
[/QUOTE]
Do you think that a harbour master has the skills time and training to do the job of the police force? Would you also propose that car park attendants were asked to stop and carry out spot checks to motorists and issue faxed penalty fines to motorists?
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Old 06 July 2012, 15:40   #77
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There are plenty of laws/regulations that aren't effectively enforced - because they can't be, but they make MOST people think - which IMHO is the real issue.

Drink driving is really badly enforced - but IF you are caught, you don't get much sympathy these days - and you get the book thrown at you.

If there was some sort of rule or requirement - covering a basic level of knowledge, including safety kit, and ability - then HM's/local councils etc could check their validity when registering the vessel (like they already do with insurance - at least they do here).

Then, at some point in the future, there were problems, then those individuals could be held liable by the authorities. I.e. Idiot crashes into Safe Water Mark, RNLI launch and tow into harbour, met by CG and local police - enforce at that point.
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Old 06 July 2012, 17:29   #78
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Well i wasn't going to comment any further but after reading the last few pages of posts again, its quite surprising that the only real arguments against mandatory certification/drinking at sea revolve around only two or three percieved idea's.

1) Mandatory training/certification is unnecessary and un-enforceable.....

After returning home from my voyages around the world on supertankers/ferries/cruiseships/offshore vessels i have spent the last 5 years living (yes, literally living) in the middle of the Solent, well for 6-7 months of each year anyway. This gives me and my colleagues a better view than almost anyone else around of people's boating (bad) habits so please believe me when i say that after seeing the things i have seen over the last 5 years, a minimum standard is most definately needed.
There is a dismal level of appreciation of even basic rules of the road or ColRegs and I have lost track of how many times the Lifeboat has been launched to people who had either no working VHF (or had no knowledge of how to use it), no flares, no experience of basic boat/outboard/inboard operation etc.... Wake up people and stop living in denial
Speak to anyone that spends as much time as us on the water and they will surely concur.

2) A BUI (boating under influence) law would be impossible to regulate or enforce.

Do you lot really believe this when many other countries around the world already succesfully do exactly that?

Try boating while intoxicated in the USA, France or Australia and see where it gets you. (im sure if i Googled this i could find many, many more but these are three that i already know of)

Think of a boat much in the same way as a campervan and you soon realise that its not that difficult to police. Your perfectly entitled to park up in a van and enjoy a few glasses of wine so long as your not behind the wheel and you dont resume your voyage if your BAC is over the legal limit.

We have a very good working relationship with the Southampton Police marine unit and i'll speak to them shortly to guage their opinion as to how difficult it would be to enforce. I'm quite confident they will confirm that, so long as an appropriate law and limit is in place, they will have no problem prosecuting people for being drunk in charge of a boat. A random check of an individual's basic safety certificate (if ever implemented) could also be undertaken during routine stops.

I'm not looking to ban people from drinking alltogether when out on the water, i just want to have the reassurance that when i'm transiting a narrow entrance to a harbour with my wife, three year old son and dog on board, that the driver of the large motorcruiser approaching me as he exits isnt that rat-arsed that he's going to collide head on with us.


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Old 06 July 2012, 17:47   #79
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Whats a routine stop? I have never seen a marine police boat or policeman outside the Upper Clyde area and rarely even then.........
I have never been stopped and inspected in around 20 years of RIB use and frankly would be mightily pi88ed if,
1. I had to pay even more tax to employ folk to do so properly, and
2. I started getting stopped and and bugged out on the water when the point is to relax and enjoy myself in the nice empty waters around Scotland.

It may be enforceable in the Solent but not around here, you generally don't need qualifications, insurance or permission to go out on the water in this country and I want it to stay that way.

I have to repeat, I don't drink and am well equipped and qualified, these proposals don't affect me one jot.
However I am not working commercially and want to be left alone to enjoy myself based on my personal assessment of the risk, not some governmental bod deciding what I can and cannot do.
Common sense seem to be fairly uncommon these days and the natural reaction once rules are in place is to continually tighten them, so just don't start down that road. If you want to base it on risk then any effort would be better spent on regulating the road journey to the boat, this is where the real risk on a trip lies.

As I said, where do you draw the line at mandatory training, when would you need it? this sort of thing was proposed for climbing 20 years ago and knocked on the head, everyone including the government and the Mountain Rescue teams realised that not only was it impossible to enforce but the eventual effect was not only to basically stop climbing but to prevent folk assessing the risk themselves and just follow some rules they got taught on a course which they were told would make them safe.
This would increase the danger not reduce it.

I would have to say I don't know many idiots locally apart from some visiting jetskiers, the seas tend to weed out the stupid and inexperienced quite quickly up here.

Incidentally its not that long since I was last at sea, 2005/6 I think was the last time 250 miles off the west coast of Ireland, before that the Artic Circle.
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Old 06 July 2012, 18:02   #80
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Then, at some point in the future, there were problems, then those individuals could be held liable by the authorities. I.e. Idiot crashes into Safe Water Mark, RNLI launch and tow into harbour, met by CG and local police - enforce at that point.
This has bee considered in many pastimes that sometimes go wrong. General opinion is that having enforcement bodies associated with anything that is an accident without injury stops people calling the rescue services and the delay makes the incident worse.
I doubt the RNLI would like this idea.
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